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Old 11th February 2013, 04:24 AM   #34781
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About mixing with headphones, if you make the headphone's balance for the studio's musicians with your monitors, you'll get a lot of complaints. The good practice is to use the same headphones than us, and mix their monitoring balances with it.
Suddenly, they will tell-you they have the best balance ever (They say that to all the girls :-)
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Old 11th February 2013, 04:25 AM   #34782
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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Interesting discussion. I was involved in marketing an analog noise canceling chipset a few years ago. Although very good at the semiconductor part, the engineers had no feel for the complexities of the acoustic part of the system. Customers were trying to use us as an acoustic tuning service (we had a HATS and the measurement gear). Eventually I persuaded the people responsible to kill the project. Headphone design, and getting a reasonable response is very difficult - I must have seen dozens of plots and they never looked clean and smooth, and customers tweaked endlessly. A hopeless cause.

The little Sony, Panasonic etc IE's noise cancellers that you buy at the airports are remarkably good for the circa $70 you pay for them. Interestingly, designed and engineered in New Zealand of all places . . .
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Old 11th February 2013, 04:31 AM   #34783
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Sorry, rules is rules ... http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analo...ml#post3364842 ...

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Old 11th February 2013, 05:35 AM   #34784
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
Interesting discussion.- I must have seen dozens of plots and they never looked clean and smooth, and customers tweaked endlessly. A hopeless cause.
Until you can auto EQ them to flat as I described. Try this approach to an age old problem... trying to get a flat response. It works ! And now its easy and cheap to do, as well.

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Old 11th February 2013, 06:00 AM   #34785
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HA! Yeah, and even to this day, monster.com has a little link at the bottom of their page that says "Looking for Monster Cables?"

se
AFIIK the Fenway "green monster" flap was a complete fabrication.
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Old 11th February 2013, 06:03 AM   #34786
1audio is offline 1audio  United States
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Can-you describe this 'dummy head+ears' ? Molding of a real ear in silicon ? Then record of a flat loudspeaker in open ear to calibrate ?
(Excuse-me, Richard, i have no experience in headphone design, neither had read a lot about.)
The artificial ear is quite complex. Ear and Cheek Simulator Type 43AG

There are different silicone ears in different durometers for different purposes. Sony made molds of over 150 people to get a "reference" ear that would give repeatable measurements. Turns out it was the smallest one that worked best for them. The inner part, the 711 coupler (or one of its variations, IEC 60711, Zwislocki et.al.) are designed to mimic the acoustic impedance of a real ear. They have resonances tuned to match the standard (which I think was Zwislocki's wife originally). They are all useless above 7-8 KHz for anything real.

Fig 7 here http://www.grasinfo.dk/documents/pd_...ember_2012.pdf shows the typical response curve of the coupler. If you correct for that you get really weird results (I tried it).

When you ask a headphone vendor to make their best headphone they always respond with "what curve do you want?" They really don't know what to make.

Waterfall plots don't really show much either, or if they do the device is a real disaster. Most of the transducers I have measured are really low distortion, .1% and less at normal hearing levels. The measurement equipment usually used is the limitation in the published measurements. However, that said, the materials have a major influence on the sound and I have not found a way to measure those effects. It seems easier to just tap and listen.

The parts are very small and complex so getting consistency unit to unit is quite difficult. It turns out not to be an easy way to make money.
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Old 11th February 2013, 06:06 AM   #34787
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I sing the battle song of those who's bread I eat.
None of the meaning is lost.
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Old 11th February 2013, 06:18 AM   #34788
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The artificial ear is quite complex..
Thanks a lot, Demian, for your valuable information (as always :-). I discover something very interesting: this HQ peak around 15kHz.
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Old 11th February 2013, 06:52 AM   #34789
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AFIIK the Fenway "green monster" flap was a complete fabrication.
What Monster Cable did was oppose the Red Sox's trademark application for "Green Monster."

Monster's thug lawyers are ruthless, usually going after the little guys, like Snow Monsters, a skiing program for kids.

And remember "Monster Garage" on Discovery? Monster went after them too. Check out "Monster Garage" on TESS and see who owns the trademark for "Monster Garage" now.

These people are just plain evil. I'd love nothing more than to see Monster Cable just disappear and Noel Lee out begging on the streets.

se
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Old 11th February 2013, 07:05 AM   #34790
1audio is offline 1audio  United States
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I know this is falling on deaf ears but just see how long you could offer a Coke power amp before the lawyers show up. Unfortunately trademark law puts you in a difficult position. I had a trademark stolen from me simply because I could not afford to defend it, regardless of my legitimate claim. The "system" is rigged for the rich guys.
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