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Old 10th February 2013, 08:33 PM   #34741
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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The Beat story with Monster sounds about right to me also... as a long time friend of Noel's -- going back to before he went into audio. Monster has made a lot of money for its share holder. But never figured out how to grow as a company. Selling a product successfully is Not the same thing as growing a business. It should be no surprise to anyone that growing a business is a lot more profitable in the long run; That takes more than electronics skill or marketing skill.

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Old 10th February 2013, 08:34 PM   #34742
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some headphones:
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Old 10th February 2013, 08:55 PM   #34743
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So Christophe,
What you are showing there is that we are doomed to mediocrity if we listen to any of these headphones? I guess I can just put two transistor radios on a coat hanger on my head and get this kind of sound.
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Old 10th February 2013, 08:57 PM   #34744
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
I've done my share of 'analysis' and published it too in both the AES and IEEE.
maybe so, but it seems an evil tiresome word to you these days, mostly mentioned thus 'I have some measurements somewhere, if anyone is interested I will dig them up' and thats the end of it, if anyone asks. As others have said John, its not the stories of famous names, though that can be taken too far, its substituting the allusion to proof, or associating oneself with fame, fortune, success or unrelated technical acumen, given in place of the real and topical proof of the thing under discussion ...


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Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
Right now it is a mixed bag.... if you look at the headphone product on the shelves, some have only Beats as owner, some have three names as Designed by and others have only Monster for owner. Seems that the breakup wasnt clean and there are some from each and some from both.
The major headphone companies which have been around for decades were asleep at their marketing wheel. Until a new comer entered their domain and did the marketing to a nitch they had been ignoring.

Now its a marketing fight over that nitch. The consumer will have to sort thru it but will benifit from the competition.

-RNM
you really think anyone but them will benefit? the winner of this fight will produce the best piece of marketing driven fap. real good quality headphones are more popular than ever as well and in enthusiast circles, Beats are recognized and ridiculed for the dross they are, but the battle for decent sound quality in the mainstream is lost. I reckon they are ugly as sin too, dont like the design at all, 100% plastic fantastic gimmick.

its funny theres a recent photo somewhere with Dre specifically NOT using Beats in the studio... can you imagine how a mix would turn out when using them as monitors? haha scratch that, with hip-hop it might turn out just right

Tyll is a legend!
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Old 10th February 2013, 08:57 PM   #34745
1audio is online now 1audio  United States
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
1audio,
The problem I have with the concept of making these headphones work for Hip Hop music is you are taking a music mix that is already heavy in the bass, lacking in mids and nothing but synthetic highs from a keyboard and doing the same in the headphones own curve here. Making a bad mix even worse. So you are saying that any other music will sound like hell on them, this I can agree on after listening to multiple different models. The industrial design is nice but the sound quality isn't any better than a $5 computer loudspeaker really.
1) No computer speaker can deliver the bass experience of these headphones. Should you want it.

2) Dr. Dre's system in his studio has something like 16 15" woofers in a custom Ocean Way system that probably has a similar balance to the headphones. It may be perverse but this could validate "hear what the artists hear" before they lost their hearing.
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Old 10th February 2013, 08:59 PM   #34746
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If I recall correctly, HD800 is diffuse-field equalized, so there is a reason for the particular frequency response. Every pair ships with a graph showing deviation from the "ideal" response.
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Old 10th February 2013, 09:05 PM   #34747
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Headphone response is very complicated by the ear-phone interface. The in-ear phones are much easier to measure, the "cans" much tougher and subject to much interpretation of what constitutes typical pinnae etc.. There are some good discussions here and there, and there is still a fair amount of controversy iirc. A good start is Poldy's lengthy chapter in Borwick ed. Loudspeaker and Headphone Handbook, ISBN 0240515781 for the third edition.

Brad

EDIT: for those on a budget the 2nd edition is available used, much cheaper, and may have much of the same content from Poldy. His article btw is the only one about headphones in the whole book.

Last edited by bcarso; 10th February 2013 at 09:25 PM. Reason: afterthought
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Old 10th February 2013, 09:08 PM   #34748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
So Christophe,
What you are showing there is that we are doomed to mediocrity if we listen to any of these headphones? I guess I can just put two transistor radios on a coat hanger on my head and get this kind of sound.
Hum... I just wanted to show how it is difficult to measure an headphone response. Need to compare several to get an idea of the measurements errors (common peaks between severall).
Even on your ears, the slightest change of position greatly change the response.
It seems that, apart a little excess in medium basses, and a little accident in medium, the cheap and nice Porta Pro is one of the best for few bucks, and the Beat obviously the worse..
I have top old AKGs, Sennheiser and Koss electrostatic at home, no one is perfect, and at least, the Koss Porta Pro is the one i prefer on daily use once equalized at 100 & 7000hz :-)
I have too an old Stax, very analytic, found-it not musical for my taste, i hear the membrane..
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Last edited by Esperado; 10th February 2013 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 09:10 PM   #34749
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yeah HD800 arent as bad as it looks in the graph, I cant hack them anyway, due to peaky/piercing treble (sibilance is too kind a word) and impossibly large 'soundstage' unrelated to the recording, but headphone curves take a bit of getting used to, to look at.

beats are a travesty though, theres no way to put positive spin on their response and no way to do anything about it with tuning your amp, since they use onboard active 'equalization'

Last edited by qusp; 10th February 2013 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 09:13 PM   #34750
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1audio,
I haven't talked to Allen Sides of Ocean Way for a long time but I would have to ask him about that sound system you are describing. Sounds like it was made specifically for hip hop. Allen always had old RCA Ubangi enclosures when I heard his older systems. He has always been a tweeker of audio systems and has been very successful in the studio business.
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