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Old 8th February 2013, 03:13 PM   #34461
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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If the device can distinguish signal from noise in the current passing through it then it must contain a Maxwell demon. Given the Nasa connection, does that mean that it is not military tech but alien tech?
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:17 PM   #34462
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Max, you might have a reasonable approach. Diffmaker might work in this case. I might be able to set it up with my new PC and its high quality Sound Module, that I haven't even fired up, because I have no immediate use for it.
I have been waiting for a better instrument than my HP 3563, which is an SRS, than many of us have seen demonstrated at AES, but I might be able to do it with what I have. See how things get done? I'm just a tired old man, but I can be inspired too!
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:21 PM   #34463
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
Ok some questions...

- Who participating in this discussion thread have direct experience of BQP.

- Of those, has anybody done a 'Diffmaker" comparison, and what was the magnitude wrt the original signal of the derived difference.

- Ditto, what was the nature of the sound of the difference signal
In order:

1. Me.
2. Null to the same level as a 30 m-ohm resistor, i.e., better than 120dBFS. I may have even posted the files at some point. I did send them to someone who was a "believer," and he publicly confirmed that they were indistinguishable.
3. Random noise in both cases, same as any loopback.

In every single measurement, the results were indistinguishable from a cheap resistor. It's easy to find lots of positive "reviews" of any placebo (not just in audio) that has a good story behind it.

Fraud or performance art, take your pick.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:25 PM   #34464
SY is offline SY  United States
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Poor old Dr. Hawksford, he 'messed up' too, according to you, JN.
Not just according to jn. You left out all the other people (including the referees who rejected it from the same engineering journals that publish other papers of his that aren't obviously wrong) who found the major flaws.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:28 PM   #34465
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
That sort of AC 'clipping' appears to be an artifact of the display. I can get the SAME sort of 'clipping' from one of my early graphic calculators when showing a sine wave. Get real guys!
Only usual power mains network distortion. Measured thru 1:2 voltage divider.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:31 PM   #34466
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Really? I will have to talk to Malcolm about this, next time I see him. The last time we spoke about this, he was adamant that he was correct.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:32 PM   #34467
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Default Dither Ain't Dither....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
If the device can distinguish signal from noise in the current passing through it then it must contain a Maxwell demon. Given the Nasa connection, does that mean that it is not military tech but alien tech?
'Signal' is never plain signal...it always signal PLUS noise PLUS distortions (plural) PLUS distorted signal PLUS distorted noise PLUS distorted distortions (plural)...and so on...IOW typically a sorry mess.
Changing the nature of the system noise will exponentially change the nature of the final audio resultant.
Dither is touted as a cure all, so how come differing dithering sounds so subjectively different ???...Hint, try mixdowns on Cool Edit for example using differing dithering...IME the resultants are profoundly subjectively different !.

Dan.

Last edited by Max Headroom; 8th February 2013 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:34 PM   #34468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
If the device can distinguish signal from noise in the current passing through it then it must contain a Maxwell demon. Given the Nasa connection, does that mean that it is not military tech but alien tech?
Maybe they live in the nanotubes. Max, they go to great effort to emphasize the causally impossible separation of signal and noise after the fact. I've posted pictures of the horrible 1/f noise on a typical LP, lets see the removal of this with no effect on the low frequency musical content.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 8th February 2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:41 PM   #34469
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Maybe they live in the nanotubes.
terrible pun

wish I thought of it
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:50 PM   #34470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
Dither is touted as a cure all, so how come differing dithering sounds so subjectively different ???...Hint, try mixdowns on Cool Edit for example using differing dithering...IME the resultants are profoundly subjectively different !.
If you change the spectral distribution of a noise floor, it can certainly sound different. Nothing remarkable about that, this is why you have those options in sound editing.

Dither is not a "cure all," it is a cure for a particular disease- quantization. And indeed, even with different dither types, quantization distortion disappears.
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