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Old 5th February 2013, 05:09 AM   #34201
wayne is offline wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
It seems the NRJ muse need caps in the signal path ?
I would be interested to know what devices you had tested, and your results. Including your version, of course :-)
I tested Wolfson, National, Ti, older Crystal a few Maxims and the NJR.
I didn't save results but they varied from horrible to very good with NJR at the top. I will post some measurements soon. You don't need caps on the Muses as you can run dual supplies. Implementation is of course key but it is very transparent and well reviewed if that matters.
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:32 AM   #34202
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Originally Posted by wayne View Post
I will post some measurements soon.
Thank-you very much, wayne. I hope you will include your :-)
It will be very interesting, as comparative reviews of those chips had not be know, as far as i know.
I have, on my side, noted 10 references or so, including 3PGAs. it is a pity they don't use the same logic, so we can compare all of them in an easy way.
My list:
Cirrus Logic CS3310
Dallas DS166
Dallas (Maxim) DS1882
Mitsubitchi M62446AFP
Mas MAS6116
Maxim MAX5409
BURR BROWN (TI) PGA2310, PGA2311, PGA2320
WOLSON WM8816
JRC MUSES72320
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Last edited by Esperado; 5th February 2013 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:57 AM   #34203
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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hmm, the MUSE opamps seemed to me to be 10x the price for unremarkable performance, simply because they have an OFC copper leadframe and can claim 'made for audio'...

there will be a massive rise in production costs for them just because of that and the associated low production numbers/low economy of scale vs cheaper higher performance parts.

for me, if spending that sort of money I would just build a discrete opamp, so i'm interested to see the volume control chip results. the Cirrus is quite interesting, bit pricey though, but I expect not as pricey as the MUSE
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Old 5th February 2013, 06:01 AM   #34204
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This just popped -up on one of the lists I'm on. It's another confirmation, at least for me, that the humans are very unique, and, related to this thread, if some people say that they can hear something (distortion in certain parts, for example) there must be something to it, even if the majority, equipped with best tools in the world, claim that they can't measure a thing.

Human hearing beats the Fourier uncertainty principle

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For the first time, physicists have found that humans can discriminate a sound's frequency (related to a note's pitch) and timing (whether a note comes before or after another note) more than 10 times better than the limit imposed by the Fourier uncertainty principle. Not surprisingly, some of the subjects with the best listening precision were musicians, but even non-musicians could exceed the uncertainty limit. The results rule out the majority of auditory processing brain algorithms that have been proposed, since only a few models can match this impressive human performance.
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Old 5th February 2013, 06:23 AM   #34205
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yes that paper has already been brought forward as 'proof' by several people here on the forum, proof for things that far outweigh this 'discovery'. even if we accept that, 10x is only ~10db and we have far more than 10dB more range than the generally accepted human hearing SNR available. in some cases thousands..... yes the human ear is an amazing instrument, but best to keep it in perspective.

Last edited by qusp; 5th February 2013 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 5th February 2013, 07:59 AM   #34206
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Just the other day, I was having lunch with some of my colleagues, and we were talking at a level that people here wouldn't understand. There were questions about wire and bead materials and how they can impact the accuracy of accounting. But if you're happy with wood and steel, more power to you. We selected jade and nichrome after extensive testing, but that's the difference between a Bentley and a Yugo. Works for me!

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Can we get back to discussing Pepsi?
Wood and steel definitely !

George
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Old 5th February 2013, 08:34 AM   #34207
RNMarsh is online now RNMarsh  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yes that paper has already been brought forward as 'proof' by several people here on the forum, proof for things that far outweigh this 'discovery'. even if we accept that, 10x is only ~10db and we have far more than 10dB more range than the generally accepted human hearing SNR available. in some cases thousands..... yes the human ear is an amazing instrument, but best to keep it in perspective.
Hmmm. 10dB IS a big deal. As we can detect a level change of fraction of a dB in DBLT (F.Toole etal). I would think 10X would be a big deal. Many people though we were 10X worse.. instead 10X better. The hearing limits/thresholds keep falling.
Keeping it in perspective.

-RNM
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Old 5th February 2013, 10:38 AM   #34208
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
even if we accept that, 10x is only ~10db and we have far more than 10dB more range than the generally accepted human hearing SNR available.
This is frequency discrimination, not level or distortion. Humans can be extremely sensitive to pitch. Fourier uncertainty sets no minimum detection level for amplitude.
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Old 5th February 2013, 10:57 AM   #34209
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Thank-you very much, wayne. I hope you will include your :-)
It will be very interesting, as comparative reviews of those chips had not be know, as far as i know.
I have, on my side, noted 10 references or so, including 3PGAs. it is a pity they don't use the same logic, so we can compare all of them in an easy way.
My list:
...
Mitsubitchi M62446AFP
...
I can vouch for this one - my el cheapo HT system uses this chip and I haven't picked any issues due to its presence. It may have audible artifacts but they are not damaging to the things I worry about ...

Frank
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Old 5th February 2013, 11:12 AM   #34210
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
and timing
let's not forget this

Esperado, looking forward your results with the digital attenuator chips
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