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Old 29th January 2013, 05:20 PM   #33831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
I recall the distribution losses are about 9 to 10%,
I just found the distribution losses in France are estimated around 2,5 %. It's worth risking electrocution.
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Old 29th January 2013, 05:27 PM   #33832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
I recall the distribution losses are about 9 to 10%, that amount could be saved by going superconducting.

I've no idea what the portion of that is after the substations.

jn
NEMA says 6.5% but the expense of recaptuing all of that with current superconducting technology would be a bit ridiculous. I found some folks lumping generation efficiency into the distribution loss, talk about bias.

A funny story. I live in a supposedly "ultra green" community and we buy our power in bulk at around .$0.10 a KWH. We decided that we would take the opportunity offered by (I forgot which) gov. agency to pay 1 cent extra to guarantee wind or solar as our source. When it came to decide which people locked horns for and against both technologies and nothing happened.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 29th January 2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 29th January 2013, 06:14 PM   #33833
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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The different figures being quoted for 'distribution' losses in different countries might be complicated by the distinction which power engineers may draw between transmission and distribution. The former is long distance (in the UK, the National Grid and SuperGrid e.g. 275kV and 400kV). The latter is local (132kV and lower). Roughly speaking, the Grid is multiply-connected while local distribution is more likely to be a set of independent branches.

So what I am saying is that to compare like with like you need to add transmission losses to distribution losses, if the two are distinguished.
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Old 29th January 2013, 06:38 PM   #33834
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I've been told that the main reason to use half million Volt DC long lines is because, even at 60 Hz, too much would be lost by radiation from the big antenna. (!)

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 29th January 2013, 06:43 PM   #33835
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Less current to transfer, less impedance losses.
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Old 29th January 2013, 07:01 PM   #33836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
Less current to transfer, less impedance losses.
Yes, but they also convert to and from DC (!). Pictures of the SCR's will blow your mind. People look like ants, as the saying goes.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 29th January 2013, 07:09 PM   #33837
wrinkle is offline wrinkle  United Kingdom
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Another subtle effect in the power distribution differences between Europe and the US is 3 wire 3 phase vs 4 wire 3 phase, it is a while ago that I had to deal with it, but as it is true 3 phase transformers everywhere in the UK and we use a dedicated Neutral wire as well as the center wire, we have 230/240 V in houses and 415 as the next step up (delta-wye transform) but in the US it is all 3 wire 3 phase, so an imbalance in power consumption between the phases leads to a phase error and waveshape error in the US but it leads to neutral current in the eurpoean model, no free lunch either way...

Wrinkle
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Old 29th January 2013, 07:13 PM   #33838
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
Yes, but they also convert to and from DC (!). Pictures of the SCR's will blow your mind. People look like ants, as the saying goes.

Thanks,
Chris
One of the early d.c. conversion substations was located in Sylmar CA, and I understand it didn't look pretty after the 1971 earthquake.
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Old 29th January 2013, 07:14 PM   #33839
wrinkle is offline wrinkle  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
I've been told that the main reason to use half million Volt DC long lines is because, even at 60 Hz, too much would be lost by radiation from the big antenna. (!)

Thanks,
Chris
I thought that the UK supergrid was still AC, it is only the Power share with Europe in undersea cables that is DC.
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Old 29th January 2013, 07:14 PM   #33840
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
Yes, but they also convert to and from DC
I am sorry I have not followed the debate, my remark was related to power line VHV ac transfer.
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