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Old 26th January 2013, 09:02 PM   #33671
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John,
Some us can forgive you for the flaws of Parasound's execution of your designs. Now if they wiily-nilly changed the values or substituted entirely different devices I would imagine that you would be the one shaking the tree here so to speak. But it isn't your company, you are really a paid consultant. How you handle a product with your name on it would be interesting to me though. What rights do you have when you allow your name recognition to be used on a product? Can you in effect control the build quality of one of your own designs, or are there specific instances where you are being paid to use your name or designation and have no recourse? Off the subject I know but it would be enlightening to understand the relationship that you have with the many different vendors that you do design work for.
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Old 26th January 2013, 09:16 PM   #33672
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I do have some recourse, and I DO approve the schematics that are used, but I do not always get a prototype to test, until much later.
For the JC-series, I have to approve of everything, including parts and layout. I can get changes made at the engineering level, IF I am not happy with something. However, because of all this, the JC-series costs at least twice as much, retail. That is the trade-off.
Just like an automobile: IF you want a $15,000 auto, it will have more compromises than a $30,000 auto, and you should not complain just because the $15K auto doesn't have adjustable seats, or corner as well. You pay your money and you take your choice.
IF one of the designs, such as the A21 or the A23 did badly with the reviewers, then I would step in, immediately, and demand changes or my name removed from the product. Of course, I would also lose my royalty for the product, so there has to be something SERIOUSLY WRONG with the unit, not some complaint about a loose connector, that IF it is Parasound's fault, can be returned under warranty. Why don't they go that route? It is the most legitimate one, rather than harassing the designer.
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Old 26th January 2013, 11:56 PM   #33673
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
If a number of people had independently complained (for good reasons) that this was a problem, then Parasound would most likely respond.
What is the number of amps Parasound is selling and how many people complaining would qualify for deserving a response?

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But apparently one instance where a customer was 'ticked off' enough to hassle the designer of the schematic, in order to get special treatment, was 'a bridge too far'.
Someone should whisper to your boss ear that potential customers will be ‘a bridge too far’ pretty soon.

I wonder, if this “in order to get special treatment” reflects your understanding?

George
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:27 AM   #33674
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George, you are exceeding your understanding of the situation. Nobody here is expected to buy a Parasound. Heck, I have a hard time convincing many of you to buy a used or broken Parasound and fixing it up. People here are just too frugal. They WANT to make their own stuff, even when we have as good or better designs available at a price lower than someone here could even buy the parts, and pay themselves minimum wage to put them together.
I believe in 'after market service'. Parasound believes in it too. But someone cannot just 'yank our chain' for no really good reason, and get us to give them something for nothing. The Parasound products have a good long term guarantee. Check it out for yourself.

Last edited by john curl; 27th January 2013 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:28 AM   #33675
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Just like an automobile: IF you want a $15,000 auto, it will have more compromises than a $30,000 auto, and you should not complain just because the $15K auto doesn't have adjustable seats, or corner as well. You pay your money and you take your choice. .
Hi John,

I've worked with a major auto manufacturer in R&D and I can tell you first hand that the cost of the vehicle is by no means reflected in the sale price. Sure a V8 with leather seats will cost more than the V6 with fabric seats. But, when I see the sale price of some of the premium vehicles I worked on, it's "what the market will withstand pricing" that's the strategy here.

Typically the margin could be as high as 6-fold on the premium products versus what was returned on the entry level models.

Talking to some other guys from a couple of the EU auto makers at an SAE conference one year, this was much the same for them.
You see what you develop for your flagship models by way of technology etc, often finds it way into the lower entry level models - at some point.

I'll give two interesting examples: I co-wrote the firmware and developed the hardware for auto-headlights (sensors/switching) and auto-windscreen sensor and control for a particular series of auto models. We wanted to do our own thing rather than just buy-in from another OEM, but importantly save the company a whole lot of 3rd party cost.

Well, the cost of introducing this feature to the body-control module (controls the interior and ancillary non-engine functions, Air Con, Windows etc etc) was about USD11 per vehicle, based on a volume of 20k vehicles (with the features installed) and 2-year recovery on all R&D etc. The fact that one year over 30k vehicles went out with these features made some people in marketing & sales a nice Christmas bonus!

These features were sold at one point to the end-user on some auto models as an optional extra, at a staggering USD1800+ H'mmm...or in one case the auto headlights feature alone could have cost you USD500+

The guys in marketing said to me the market pricing reflected what the market will withstand, based on projected volumes, and perceived end-user value vs cost when it comes to premium models.

Last edited by chopper13; 27th January 2013 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:43 AM   #33676
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Originally Posted by chopper13 View Post

The guys in marketing said to me the market pricing reflected what the market will withstand, based on projected volumes, and perceived end-user value vs cost when it comes to premium models.
One of the nice things about automotive accessories: they are bundled in OEM vehicles with the major investment of the car itself, and as well most people will pay for them over time. It will be unusual for a Lexus buyer to think of the premium Mark Levinson sound system's percentage adder each time she or he makes a monthly payment.

My late father used to counsel "Charge what the market will bear". However he amended this to something along the lines of "The hell you will!" when I suggested raising my rates to troubleshoot a system for a chiseler friend of his from schoolboy days.

The trickle-down theory is a nice one though. I'm planning on applying it to some long-in-gestation products for which I may never actually build the highest end version. But the steps toward that cost-less-object version are helping determinations of things that will be more affordable.
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Old 27th January 2013, 12:44 AM   #33677
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Thanks for your input, chopper. Now what price point should I buy a car, and what should I expect?
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Old 27th January 2013, 01:23 AM   #33678
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Mark Levinson sound system's percentage adder each time she or he makes a monthly payment
This is an interesting one: The auto maker I worked for was selling "marketing space" in their vehicles; think of your dashboard as a kind of mini bill board that's got very good market visibility!
They saw it as a win-win, getting their premium brand/value associated with another premium brand - it's got to be good for business, for both parties, right?

From what I've seen, the cost of the premium name brand stereo in another premium name brand auto maker's models is probably not what you think it would cost the auto maker to include that specific brand in their vehicle.

I heard second-hand, that one premium audio manufacturer attributed their sales increase in part to when their brand appeared installed in a specific auto maker's models.

Changing markets and diminishing sales has driven some quite inventive, but probably pretty obvious joint ventures across product and industry markets/segments.
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Old 27th January 2013, 01:28 AM   #33679
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Thanks for your input, chopper. Now what price point should I buy a car, and what should I expect?
Once I would have said buy something Japanese if you wanted reliability, go EU if you want bleeding edge, style and performance and will quit the car in 4 years time, because the repair costs might kill your discretionary spending ability.
Or else buy something North American (Canadian probably) made?

Now, just buy whatever suits and you can afford and don't fret

Sorry, I didn't intend to "crap on your thread" so to speak...
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Old 27th January 2013, 01:44 AM   #33680
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
SY was clear about, and his remark about latch was 'theoretical', while he said that Berhinger have XLR with no latchs...
No, I said the opposite. The Behringer DOES use XLR with latches. Apparently saving the extra 5 cents or so wasn't worth the reliability hit for their under $200 box.

I suspect that they don't publicly sneer dismissively about their customers. That's reserved for the audio fashion industry.
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