John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 3325 - diyAudio
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:09 AM   #33241
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Christophe,
I don't imagine that you are saying to toss out a multichannel Neve console and replace it with a $500 Mackie desk and say you have a professional recording studio sound? You know there is much more to it than just getting new cheap consumer quality gear, it doesn't make any sense to me to think that way.
He said "technical quality": a half decent mic and A/D would trounce any of the older gear. Yes, you may miss the nice cuddly distortions added by the "pro" analogue deck, but these days you can inject them back in with a piece of cheap software - in fact this is done all the time, already. The "better" engineers have a nice hardware module that adds that lovely analogue tone the old-fashioned way ...

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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:10 AM   #33242
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Really? Show me. I don't believe you.
It is a very new machine. "Made on Mars". It is called PC or MAC. You can use-it as a multitrack recorder, an editing machine, an automated mixing desk, a mixing recorder. You can add a lot of effects, including nice reverberations, flange, delays, harmonizer, vocoder etc. You can even use-it to play instruments, synthetisers, piano, and simulate others, violins, drums etc...
All that with a bandwidth absolutely flat, a noise +distortion at the limit of your measuring instruments.
You can watch HD TV on it, sharper than on your TV set, edit photographies with 1000X more power than any film laboratory, copy all your valuable records in it and organize them. And all you need to play them is an amplifier and good enclosures.
And you can even publish on internet forums all the bad you thing about digital.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:13 AM   #33243
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Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
I attach 1/3 8ve noise plots of a good MM system c/f probably the quietest MC preamp in the known universe in practice.

Here's a 1/3 8ve noise plot. The B&K 2307 chart recorder has slipped by 1 tooth so 50Hz (hum) appears at 40Hz. 1dB/division

Scott, is that the one where they use a MM example and work out noise in 1/3 8ve bands? I'd appreciate a ref. I've been trying to find it since 2008.
The noise plot looks interesting but I can't figure out a reference point for comparison.

Here is Sy's calculator (based on the National app note) RIAA Noise Calculator The note, or the TI reprocessed version of the note is here: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva515b/snva515b.pdf
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:26 AM   #33244
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
I don't imagine that you are saying to toss out a multichannel Neve console and replace it with a $500 Mackie desk and say you have a professional recording studio sound?
Kindhornman, i was talking about technical quality (transparency). Not 'sound'. As far we are talking about tone corrections, as an example, there is things that we cannot achieve in digital. But add some good analog corrector: done !
Well, the big studio room/hall, the mics and the good musicians, headphones and their mixs and the ability to make a lot of things in the same time, etc. it is an other story :-)
With the add of some DSP cards, you can approach-it very near and get a powerfull real time mixing console .
(i still prefer to work on analog console :-)
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Last edited by Esperado; 22nd January 2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:33 AM   #33245
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http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/lt1115fa.pdf
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:36 AM   #33246
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Okay Christophe you had me worried for a minute there! If we are talking only about noise figures and perhaps frequency response range I'll give you that with most digital equipment, but that doesn't give you the heart and soul of the music. The recording engineer has to be as much a master of the craft as the musician, otherwise we would just have sterile boring music. I know that isn't you and I can imagine you behind the desk fattening up a vocal or adding some sheen to a cymbal.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:40 AM   #33247
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
The Ortofon is (was?) the X5-MC, and those data were stated by them, as well as their description as a high-output moving coil. How they managed that L with that small R was not disclosed
Ortofon X5-MC doesn't show any L. Your 450mH was probably a clueless Marketing man culling numbers from a MM example by mistake.

I can't see Ortofon making a mistake like this. IIRC, they 'invented' the MC cartridge. IMHO, low L is one of the big advantages of MC.

My (pseudo?) transducer guru hat says it is practically impossible to make a MC cartridge with such high L unless you were really stupid.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:45 AM   #33248
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Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
The noise plot looks interesting but I can't figure out a reference point for comparison.

Here is Sy's calculator (based on the National app note) RIAA Noise Calculator The note, or the TI reprocessed version of the note is here: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva515b/snva515b.pdf
Yes, that TI piece is a significant improvement over the original bit in the back of the National Semiconductor Audio Handbook. Among other things it includes an amplifier input current noise generator, which the earlier article just mentions will make your results worse. I found it amusing that the same book had contradictory results presented in the main text, pushing a NS part for phono applications.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:46 AM   #33249
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Okay Christophe you had me worried for a minute there!
This the movie studio of one of my friends. 128 tracks mixing desk, 5.1 full processing, all computer based, DAW SSL Solid State Logic Soundscape.
They won a lot of awards.
Locaux Super Sonic Productions
As far as i'm concerned, i feel uncomfortable with all those screens, i need a real desk, and just the movie screen in the dark, to be 'in' the image and forget everything else. And to get my mix's tracks in a real physical place with real buttons. Notice, i consider myself as a poor old dinosaur of an other age, and ask indulgence.
But technically, this studio is perfect.
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Last edited by Esperado; 22nd January 2013 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 01:52 AM   #33250
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Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
The noise plot looks interesting but I can't figure out a reference point for comparison.
Simply 1/3 8ve noise plots.
  • One with a MM into a good RIAA preamp.
  • The other with a MC into a very low noise head amp into the same preamp.
The gain of the head amp is slightly higher than it needs to be for the 2 playback systems to have equal loudness.

It shows
  • The MC system is quieter than the MM system
  • The MC noise is pinkish so will sound less nasty and electronic than the MM noise.
If you want a number, the contributed noise of the headamp is 0.28nV/rtHz which I believe makes it still the quietest such device in the known universe.

Quote:
Here is Sy's calculator (based on the National app note) RIAA Noise Calculator The note, or the TI reprocessed version of the note is here: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva515b/snva515b.pdf
Thanks for this Demian.

So the article was in a book not an AN. No wonder I couldn't find it this millenium

Last edited by kgrlee; 22nd January 2013 at 01:55 AM.
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