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Old 15th January 2013, 09:49 AM   #32691
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
What is your point ? This tune is as intended by the producer. "Wall of sound". Drums and basses are OK, and so the 'Marshall 100W' rythmic guitar. Screaming voices are processed the way they wanted to be, and under-mixed to give an 'overkill level' feeling. There is no so much compression, apart voices, saturated guitars compress themselves and makes a 'carpet'. But you can follow each instrument, if you want.
Well, I come from an era where this sort of technique, of "fill every available space" with sound is extremely foreign, listening to an album like this at a good volume level is like having a physical assault enacted against one's body. I've been to many pubs, etc, where the PA, just a few feet away, of the rock band is deafening, but I don't get the sense of being aggressively battered as this modern type of mastering creates.

So, I aim to create some space between the notes, between the sounds, so that I can make sense of its structure. Foo Fighters material is much, much harder to tame -- part of the "problem" is that my system doesn't shirk from delivering the dynamics, which translates in this case to battering ram characteristics. And, the guitar sounds are heavily processed; I have plenty of Marshall amp material which is a million miles from this ...

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Old 15th January 2013, 09:59 AM   #32692
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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In fact, most recently mastered pop material, for me, comes across as very aggressive; it has "take no prisoners" feel about it ... "I'll kick your head in if you don't like it" sort of vibe ...

Frank
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:04 AM   #32693
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
The only stuff in the public domain was published by Soren Bech. IIRC, not in the AES.
He wrote a book
Wiley: Perceptual Audio Evaluation - Theory, Method and Application - Søren Bech, Nick Zacharov

The (likely) essentials
http://test.mm2m.dk/imported/sensela...n_Tutorial.pdf

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Old 15th January 2013, 10:04 AM   #32694
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Here's an article by Tom Fine on history of digital recordings:

www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/fine_dawn-of-digital.pdf

FYI - Tom's parents gave us what is known as "Living Presence" sound.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:06 AM   #32695
mikelm is offline mikelm  England
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
In fact, most recently mastered pop material, for me, comes across as very aggressive; it has "take no prisoners" feel about it ... "I'll kick your head in if you don't like it" sort of vibe ...Frank
I agree with you Frank, but I suspect that every older generation says some such comment about the younger generation's music - it's just the way the world works
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:39 AM   #32696
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
Had a quick look ... a key phrase: "Ensure that the reproduction system is sufficient" ... a mighty big chasm opens at that point ... how valid is anything beyond, if such a vague description is made of the key part, that which is at the core of the experiments?

I've just been playing with a DSD media player, on "audiophile" DSD files, and the variation in quality over PC speakers, depending on the precise settings of the software buffering, etc, was absolutely remarkable -- chalk and cheese. Now, if I was just asked to supply DSD quality sound for an experiment I could easily compromise, twist the results by making sure the "settings" were such that the subjective quality would favour one outcome over another. But, I'm sure that if someone did the "sufficiency" tests nothing would give my little manipulation away ...

Frank
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:43 AM   #32697
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I agree with you Frank, but I suspect that every older generation says some such comment about the younger generation's music - it's just the way the world works
I believe we did the same impression to the previous generations when we came on the scene.
Something very personal.
Don't look for anything like hifi in there. Just pieces of witness live recordings with two mikes on a cassette desk or Revox placed on my little PA mixing desk. (We where poor freaks)
The only thing that remains of all the concerts of KIDS, my friends i was touring with during the 70s. My family.
(The last tune is not live, it was a 'one take' test tape in studio, not recorded by me)
The tapes are very old and destroyed by the time. But that is where my life began and ended in a way.
Play-it loud, we where playing loud :-)
http://www.esperado.fr/images/storie...ids_Final3.mp3:
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File Type: jpg kids2.jpg (95.3 KB, 133 views)
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Last edited by Esperado; 15th January 2013 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:51 AM   #32698
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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That album is recoverable ... requires a high level of tune though. I deliberately bought the CD because of everyone's bucketing of the recording; it's not so much compressed, but over-processed, which means the slightest abberation in playback is terribly fatiguing.

It actually sounds over-dynamic in many places, overcooked I used once here. The trick is to be able to get the processing to reproduce 100% cleanly, and then you can listen past it to the underlying sound, so to speak ...

Frank
I think you actually hit the nail on the head on the Adele recording: it is very fatiguing. Its a pity, because I can imagine with a good mix it could have been so much better.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:54 AM   #32699
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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"I believe the two are the same master (i have them) and it is a nice way to compare the clone CD to the vinyl and get an idea of what is lost on vinyl :-)
Very nice recording, indeed, and a masterpiece, with marvelous guitars and very natural drums and voices. It was a shock, at this time, we where not used to can hear the instruments so separated and easy to follow. Despite something a little "empty" at the end of the note's reverberations, it was for me a revelation, and dedicated-me to digital forever. And i love this guy, Ry Cooder, both the generous and modest guy and the amazing virtuoso and sensitive musician."

Yes, I have a lot of his albums and I think they are all well recorded. Agree - he is a great guy as well (very funny also with a thing for UFO's and aliens!)
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Old 15th January 2013, 11:03 AM   #32700
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by elektroj View Post
Here's an article by Tom Fine on history of digital recordings:

www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/fine_dawn-of-digital.pdf

FYI - Tom's parents gave us what is known as "Living Presence" sound.
Is it not interesting how some of the guys in the article talk about 'something special about the sound'. LOL!
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