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Old 15th January 2013, 03:29 AM   #32681
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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Heres a few more crappy modern recordings for the record

The latest Robbie Williams CD. I bought it for my wife - I don't normally listen to his stuff but this recording really just flat, flat flat. Horrible
Adele 21. Could have been superb but also compressed and flat
Worst Ive heard was REM Accellerate. Absolute crap - wall of noise/sound.

I have the original Ry Cooder (Bop 'til you Drop') Vinyl and on CD which I was told was the first ever recording that was digitally recorded and matered (3M machine?) and quite frankly I dont think its too bad. Lots of space and you can listen into the mix very well. I have not listened to the vinyl for about 15 years (I bought it in about '83 IIRC) and the CD I got about 10 years ago - it may have been remixed from the original - I dont know.
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Last edited by Bonsai; 15th January 2013 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 03:59 AM   #32682
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
In these conditions, 'good enough' was OK, but not for hi end audio. Here we rely on direct disc vinyl, 30ips, or 18ips 35mm film, full track analog master recording, or the VERY HIGHEST DIGITAL (96K or better) as our references.
I know I've asked this question before but where do you get these supa dupa recordings and are there any of them which are musically satisfying?

So far, there's been mention of a small number of Telarcs but I'm not sure 'musically satisfying' describes those.

Do the 'hi end' only listen to "direct disc vinyl, 30ips, or 18ips 35mm film, full track analog master recording, or the VERY HIGHEST DIGITAL (96K or better)"? Pretty sad if they do.

I'm still interested in SACDs which will allow me to repeat Myers & Meyer for a specific detail which I investigated 3 decades ago .. whether restricted bandwidth actually sounds better. (Full track analog masters were the best sources I used then.)

Last edited by kgrlee; 15th January 2013 at 04:09 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 04:07 AM   #32683
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
Adele 21. Could have been superb but also compressed and flat
That album is recoverable ... requires a high level of tune though. I deliberately bought the CD because of everyone's bucketing of the recording; it's not so much compressed, but over-processed, which means the slightest abberation in playback is terribly fatiguing.

It actually sounds over-dynamic in many places, overcooked I used once here. The trick is to be able to get the processing to reproduce 100% cleanly, and then you can listen past it to the underlying sound, so to speak ...

Frank
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Old 15th January 2013, 04:48 AM   #32684
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Can anyone link to these papers of the "multi-source Uni-Q experiment" at KEF?
This early 90's Eureka project was taxpayer (EU) funded. I remember asking Laurie when he presented his preliminary results, when he would publish and he gave a very vague answer. The only stuff in the public domain was published by Soren Bech. IIRC, not in the AES. May be in some B&O literature.

If you find out, please send me a PM. Rhonda Wilson, the BiQuad Queen, did the DSP.

I worked with Andy Jones at KEF. He wasn't involved in design until I left to become a beach bum in 1998. The strange thing at KEF was that Laurie kept Research entirely separate from Development and never the twain shall meet.

TAD was a good move for Andy.

When I joined, Andy was the only Research person left and there was zilch stuff on Eureka in their records and none of the speaker designers knew anything about it or the activities of Research. In fact zilch of the research stuff was left. Laurie took it all away when he went to the rebel colonies.

Though Dick Small was there for several years, none of the KEF designers knew how to do bass reflex speakers properly.

I now have a third corroboration of "stereo sounds awful in anechoics" to go with my experimental results & the BBC. Thanks for this, Shaman.
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Old 15th January 2013, 05:59 AM   #32685
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
compressed bad music usually sound good on compressed bad systems ....
Asinus asinum fricat.
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Old 15th January 2013, 06:19 AM   #32686
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Nice try ... I was thinking about a more challenging one: Foo Fighters - White Limo - YouTube ...
What is your point ? This tune is as intended by the producer. "Wall of sound". Drums and basses are OK, and so the 'Marshall 100W' rythmic guitar. Screaming voices are processed the way they wanted to be, and under-mixed to give an 'overkill level' feeling. There is no so much compression, apart voices, saturated guitars compress themselves and makes a 'carpet'. But you can follow each instrument, if you want.
Just boring punk-metal music, on my point of view, tiring because no grove, no relief and nothing new, but i would not call that a 'bad sounding' production. It's pretty well done, under the laws of such.
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Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
I have the original Ry Cooder (Bop 'til you Drop') Vinyl and on CD which I was told was the first ever recording that was digitally recorded and matered (3M machine?) and quite frankly I dont think its too bad. Lots of space and you can listen into the mix very well. I have not listened to the vinyl for about 15 years (I bought it in about '83 IIRC) and the CD I got about 10 years ago - it may have been remixed from the original - I dont know.
I believe the two are the same master (i have them) and it is a nice way to compare the clone CD to the vinyl and get an idea of what is lost on vinyl :-)
Very nice recording, indeed, and a masterpiece, with marvelous guitars and very natural drums and voices. It was a shock, at this time, we where not used to can hear the instruments so separated and easy to follow. Despite something a little "empty" at the end of the note's reverberations, it was for me a revelation, and dedicated-me to digital forever. And i love this guy, Ry Cooder, both the generous and modest guy and the amazing virtuoso and sensitive musician.
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Last edited by Esperado; 15th January 2013 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 07:20 AM   #32687
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About "Bop t'ill you drop", i was at the concert Ry Cooder gave in Paris at this time. Believe-me or not, it was better than the album, black rhythmic and chords with an *incredible* grove and the sound was perfect. Ry was back, as usual, escaping the spotlight. A real group feeling and diamond music.

At a moment, the front PA system stopped to work. Musicians did'nt noticed-it, because stage monitoring was still ok. The audience (All the guitarists of our country) began to protest, untill Ry noticed-it. He was very upset and affraid, because he believed a moment it was against him, until a roady explained the problem to him. At the same time the audience understood what was happening to him and was screaming "we love-you".

Well after some minutes, the things were fixed, and the concert was yet better till the end. Something special.

Now, the end of the story: after the 2 or 3 'bis', the musicians left the stage and the theater. And the roadies dismantled the PA system and instruments. But the audience refused to leave the theater, stamping in rhythm during more than half an hour.
Until Ry and his musicians came back from their hotel in bathrobe.
They improvised during an other 20 minutes, sitting on the edge of the stage, with acoustic guitars and percussions, no PA.
Ry was near unable to sing, his eyes full of tears, his voice quavering of emotion. This concert was one of the greatest moments of my life.
I believe it is the same for him.
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Last edited by Esperado; 15th January 2013 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 07:42 AM   #32688
mikelm is offline mikelm  England
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great story Christophe - thx
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Old 15th January 2013, 08:16 AM   #32689
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
This early 90's Eureka project
.
Ricardo, thanks for the hint.
The project was this
Project - EUREKA

Eureka imposes no requirement for publishing. I couldn’t locate any research paper related to this, not even on the Danish university’s site

Some interesting and unrelated side-outcome from my search
About KEF - KEF Topics - KEF United Kingdom
http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/..._010910_en.pdf
http://www.roymorgan.com/resources/p...s/20051103.pdf

Cristophe
Thanks for the story.
Great experience, lucky you.

George
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Old 15th January 2013, 08:34 AM   #32690
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Bop till you drop was not the first digital album on the market, but was said as the first multitrack digitaly recorded and mixed. On a 3M Mincom System:
"32-track deck (16-bit, 50 kHz audio) running 1-inch tape and a 4-track, 1/2-inch mastering recorder.
Both machines operated at 45 ips, offering a 30-minute record time from a 7,200-foot, 12.5-inch reel or 45-minutes from a 14-inch, 9,600-foot spool. As no true 16-bit converters were available, it combined separate 12-bit and 8-bit converters to create 16-bit performance."
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