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Old 14th January 2013, 10:00 PM   #32671
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Here is what I thought about digital 33 years ago. Still holds true for me, today.
John, on another thread you recommended, TRUST YOUR EARS. Well, 25 years ago my ears told me there was absolutely nothing wrong with digital, and they also told me that every conventional implementation of digital playback sounded crap. So, no matter what theoretical "explanations" of why digital is bad are brought forth, my ears tell me that those ideas are just hokum ...

Frank

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Old 14th January 2013, 10:18 PM   #32672
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Well, 25 years ago my ears told me there was absolutely nothing wrong with digital, and they also told me that every conventional implementation of digital playback sounded crap.
I'm not sure to have understood what you mean.
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Old 14th January 2013, 10:30 PM   #32673
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I'm not sure to have understood what you mean.
Meaning, when I optimised my highly simplified setup I got excellent quality of sound, from recordings that to this day are judged as examples of "bad" digital mastering. Yet, when I took these and other recordings to play on all and sundry other systems at the time, no matter how expensive, the sound was uniformly quite dreadful, even atrocious. Harsh, flat, lacking in detail, or so smoothed by discarding high frequency information that at times the recording was almost unrecognisable ...

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Old 14th January 2013, 11:19 PM   #32674
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Thanks for the explanation. I agree the first consumer CD players were not all very good sounding. At least, the first digital recordings were mixed while the digital recorder was monitored. So, whatever its ADC/DAC quality, the mix was done as the sound engineer and artist (or producer) wanted it to be (at least good sounding across the big studio monitors).
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Old 15th January 2013, 12:09 AM   #32675
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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compressed bad music usually sound good on compressed bad systems ....
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Old 15th January 2013, 12:31 AM   #32676
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compressed bad music usually sound good on compressed bad systems ....
Interestingly, that's not the only case. Current pop music is one of the hardest to unravel, because of the level of compression, and processing applied. At a moderate level of playback performance these recordings are often quite intolerable, the level of clutter is the mix is quite extreme and everything has to be on its tippiest toes to resolve what's going on. I mentioned recently albums of Foo Fighters as a good test case, try one of tracks where everyone goes into a frenzy of garage thrash at a solid volume level, and see how clearly that can be unscrambled. It is possible to lay such a mix bare, to separate all the strands, but absolutely best behaviour by all and sundry is required ...

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Old 15th January 2013, 12:55 AM   #32677
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Interestingly, that's not the only case. Current pop music is one of the hardest to unravel, because of the level of compression, and processing applied. At a moderate level of playback performance these recordings are often quite intolerable, the level of clutter is the mix is quite extreme and everything has to be on its tippiest toes to resolve what's going on. I mentioned recently albums of Foo Fighters as a good test case, try one of tracks where everyone goes into a frenzy of garage thrash at a solid volume level, and see how clearly that can be unscrambled. It is possible to lay such a mix bare, to separate all the strands, but absolutely best behaviour by all and sundry is required ...

Frank
This one ?

Foo Fighters - The Pretender - YouTube

Sounds good with Bose ! .......
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Old 15th January 2013, 01:34 AM   #32678
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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This one ?

Foo Fighters - The Pretender - YouTube

Sounds good with Bose ! .......
Nice try ... I was thinking about a more challenging one: Foo Fighters - White Limo - YouTube ...

Frank
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Old 15th January 2013, 01:47 AM   #32679
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Nice try ... I was thinking about a more challenging one: Foo Fighters - White Limo - YouTube ...

Frank
Foo Fighters - White Limo (Live on Letterman) - YouTube
Pretender one was more " separated "
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Old 15th January 2013, 02:56 AM   #32680
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The "trick" is to get separation in the "poorer" track, and using the live version of White Limo just makes things easier: e.g. very heavy processing of the screamed vocals on the album means it's quite a bit harder to pull them out of the mix.

But thanks for pointing me to the live version ....

Frank
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