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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:05 AM   #32131
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
I rather suspect those who say mp3 sounds terrible are listening through a far more terrible DAC For me its not a slam dunk to tell the difference between VBR (or 320k) mp3 and the original redbook. Some loss of ambience perhaps, but not very obvious.
Yes, the difference isn't huge compared to redbook (unless u use 128k mp3, but i have never seen those on my hard disks since good 15 years). It is more of a leap going from 44/16 to DXD.

I mentionned mp3 as a clear example of where audio engineering is going, to show the direction where resources are being invested -portable compressed media, instead of pursuing a better home reproduction of Music.
Unfortunately I dont see any change of this trend.

God bless FLAC.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 11:42 AM   #32132
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Yes, that is precisely the problem, from my POV. Where I differ from just about everyone else is that my experiements, fiddlings, have shown me that this is problem of electronics, not transducers. I have been able to get the most miserable of speakers to give me that horn blat realistically, but only after I've worked over, and worked over, and worked over everything earlier in the chain.

Frank
Yes, this is also my findings. The tweeters either act as NATURAL LPF or are able to go further pretty clear. The issues are in the DAC first and foremost and in the power amp secondly.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 12:10 PM   #32133
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
This is old stuff and its possible the specifics have changed. Here is the original source: AES E-Library Subjective Measurements of Loudspeaker Sound Quality and Listener Performance The larger point still is that accuracy and "good sound" are not synonymous. Many highly rated speakers are pretty poor in many measurements. Technically perfect speakers don't necessarily review well.

A friend of mine in the hearing aid industry has explained to me that many experienced listeners actually reconstruct what they think they are hearing. A big notch in hearing (not uncommon in classical musicians) doesn't change what they perceive. I believe this has even been demonstrated with PET scans of brain activity. Learning these types of things leaves me feeling like I'm standing on quicksand.
As audio technique doesn´t make any sense without a human listener, a pure technically driven approach must fail.

Technically spoken we could only note that we fail miserably in recording and reproducing the original sound field and that by a big margin.

The foundation of our todays stereophonic reproduction lies in the observation that very (physically) different sound fields could nevertheless led to very similar perception for human listeners.
But human listeners are quite similar in various aspects of the hearing sense, but can be quite different in others.
For example a certain percentage of humans does hear a left and a right channel sound source but these two do not integrate to phantom source located somewhere between the two loudspeakers.

That might be considered as a defect but it is a correct perception of the real situation.

There exist two approaches to recover more accurate sound fields during the reproduction, one is the artificial head recording approach the other is the WFS .

Beside that we have to accept the fact that stereophonic reproduction with two channels is a more or less crude approximation to the real thing, that can work quite good, but we should not take for granted that each listener will like the same properties of such a system.

It surely will depend on personal habits, socialization, listening skills and so forth.

I find it quite instructive to see what research is done to understand which properties for example concert halls should/must have to be considered as good or great.
See for example this presentation:

http://www.chrgsummerinstitute.com/R...nvelopment.pdf

And as you´ve mentioned the compression codec development provided some very useful insights as well. Especially because some more large scale listening tests were done in the past ~20 years.
But afair jj himself would prefer (even at 320kbs, if i got it right) using AAC instead of MP3 for example, if one has to use a lossy compression scheme.

But in any case one has to carefully analyze the published studies to evaluate which conclusions are really covered by the data.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 03:22 PM   #32134
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Brad,

You win this weeks prize, as you got the right answer and no one else even got the problem. John much earlier showed his solution to using the Signal brand transformers for the Blowtorch.

ES
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Old 2nd January 2013, 03:25 PM   #32135
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
Brad,

You win this weeks prize, as you got the right answer and no one else even got the problem. John much earlier showed his solution to using the Signal brand transformers for the Blowtorch.

ES
I was wondering what the relevance was to the Blowtorch, thanks for clarification.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 03:42 PM   #32136
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
I was wondering what the relevance was to the Blowtorch, thanks for clarification.
As you apparently haven't read all the posts, I can understand.

But I think the concept of a thread topic was lost long ago.

John uses full wave bridges on each winding and then filters and combines them.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 03:46 PM   #32137
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
As you apparently haven't read all the posts, I can understand.

But I think the concept of a thread topic was lost long ago.

John uses full wave bridges on each winding and then filters and combines them.
Yes, that is a time-honored technique that I've used as well, despite the extra diode drops.

I guess I was just puzzled that you introduced (or re-introduced) the subject at this point. But as you say, the concept of a thread topic is long gone.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 03:56 PM   #32138
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Default Galbraith in the context of Krugman

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
"How can you be so famous when you've been so consistently wrong?"
When you consider that recently the Nobel Prize for economics was awarded to a highly-politically-oriented NYT journalist who thinks we haven't tried enough Neo-Keynesianism, Galbraith almost starts to look sensible

BTW, has anyone seen signs of a Federal Reserve Centennial celebration yet? Ought to be quite festive.

OK what does this have to do with the Blowtorch? Perhaps metaphorically, related to meltdowns?
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Old 2nd January 2013, 04:13 PM   #32139
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
As audio technique doesn´t make any sense without a human listener, a pure technically driven approach must fail.

Technically spoken we could only note that we fail miserably in recording and reproducing the original sound field and that by a big margin.

The foundation of our todays stereophonic reproduction lies in the observation that very (physically) different sound fields could nevertheless led to very similar perception for human listeners.
But human listeners are quite similar in various aspects of the hearing sense, but can be quite different in others.
For example a certain percentage of humans does hear a left and a right channel sound source but these two do not integrate to phantom source located somewhere between the two loudspeakers.

That might be considered as a defect but it is a correct perception of the real situation.

There exist two approaches to recover more accurate sound fields during the reproduction, one is the artificial head recording approach the other is the WFS .

Beside that we have to accept the fact that stereophonic reproduction with two channels is a more or less crude approximation to the real thing, that can work quite good, but we should not take for granted that each listener will like the same properties of such a system.

It surely will depend on personal habits, socialization, listening skills and so forth.

I find it quite instructive to see what research is done to understand which properties for example concert halls should/must have to be considered as good or great.
See for example this presentation:

http://www.chrgsummerinstitute.com/R...nvelopment.pdf

And as you´ve mentioned the compression codec development provided some very useful insights as well. Especially because some more large scale listening tests were done in the past ~20 years.
But afair jj himself would prefer (even at 320kbs, if i got it right) using AAC instead of MP3 for example, if one has to use a lossy compression scheme.

But in any case one has to carefully analyze the published studies to evaluate which conclusions are really covered by the data.
yes. My sediments, exactly :-)

Last edited by RNMarsh; 2nd January 2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 05:28 PM   #32140
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
Yes, that is a time-honored technique that I've used as well, despite the extra diode drops.

I guess I was just puzzled that you introduced (or re-introduced) the subject at this point. But as you say, the concept of a thread topic is long gone.
I am finishing up an article on power supplies and when I get really good shots of things I have shown them here. The comments are often interesting. But good info is harder to get as there are only a few participating here who have scars on their mind from the learning and scars on their hands from the soldering irons.
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