Isnt This the music and weed thread?!
Oh.
..... Where is that door I came in thru?
-RM
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Joined 2009
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Hi ostripper,
CD players often roll off beginning below 20 KHz. Where is the cry about that? I would think that this might be similar to a tweeter rolling off. In fact, that tweeter would probably be preferred as there is nothing but bad stuff in the above 20 KHz range. LPs would be even worse for that. Only an open reel running at 15 ips or above might have useful, clean information above 20 KHz. I have calibrated enough of those that run -3dB from 23 KHz up to about 26 KHz without excessive peaking. 7 1/2 ips tape would be really rare to go much above 19 KHz.
I don't think John's statement made much sense, and his defense was not realistic. I would have heard a clear difference under those same conditions too, but it doesn't mean you or I could hear what the tweeter is doing just over 20 KHz.
Hi John,
-Chris
Possibly, but the only thing that was said was that the 20 KHz response was the factor John didn't like. If it has a normal roll off, there may not be any anomalies in the normal pass band. We old folks do not hear like we did in our 20's, and by our 60's we could already be an octave below 20 KHz. My hearing is still pretty good, but I can't tell if a tweeter is rolling off above 20 KHz or not usually. Now, if you disconnect the tweeter, you very probably will hear the difference, but that is nothing like a tweeter that rolls off.
CD players often roll off beginning below 20 KHz. Where is the cry about that? I would think that this might be similar to a tweeter rolling off. In fact, that tweeter would probably be preferred as there is nothing but bad stuff in the above 20 KHz range. LPs would be even worse for that. Only an open reel running at 15 ips or above might have useful, clean information above 20 KHz. I have calibrated enough of those that run -3dB from 23 KHz up to about 26 KHz without excessive peaking. 7 1/2 ips tape would be really rare to go much above 19 KHz.
I don't think John's statement made much sense, and his defense was not realistic. I would have heard a clear difference under those same conditions too, but it doesn't mean you or I could hear what the tweeter is doing just over 20 KHz.
Hi John,
Of that, I am certain. But that is perfectly fine. Enjoy!
-Chris
I believe in extended bandwidth, without a sharp cut-off. I hate CD filtering, and when I can, go for SACD or DVD whenever possible.
At first, the Sasha speakers that were measured to have a 20KHz or so response, even a slight peak at 20KHz, were measured by 'Stereophile' to roll off after 20KHz very quickly. At first, these tweeters bothered me, and I almost put a cloth in front of the tweeter, as I had with my earlier speakers with a similar tweeter. However, the sound has now smoothed out and is OK, more or less. Still, I would like to add the 'super-tweeter, just to note any differences that I might appreciate. You never know! '-)
At first, the Sasha speakers that were measured to have a 20KHz or so response, even a slight peak at 20KHz, were measured by 'Stereophile' to roll off after 20KHz very quickly. At first, these tweeters bothered me, and I almost put a cloth in front of the tweeter, as I had with my earlier speakers with a similar tweeter. However, the sound has now smoothed out and is OK, more or less. Still, I would like to add the 'super-tweeter, just to note any differences that I might appreciate. You never know! '-)
This is just a blank statement! Facts, please!
Now, this is funny. Actually it is SACD that has requirement for sharp cut-off!
http://www.sonicstudio.com/pdf/dsd/SACD_SignalPropertiesV13.pdf
Not so m,uch to extend as to speed up the data transfer, which is a hell of a bottleneck. We're half way there, what with all the scanners and such like.
So many of the Old School Sci Fi writers' visions have already come true, the best example of which is probably "The Space Merchants" by Pohl and Kornbluth, published in 1949 and wowee, lookee here, it's all true right now.
Oh, sorry. For the better, to be sure. The sound seems to come along much more easily.
According to the document you quoted, the cut-off frequency recommended for SACD is more than an octave higher than the cut-off frequency required for CD.
I don't see how that contradicts what John said, or shows it to be nonsense.
Sigh..
None of CD players for the past two and a half decades have used analog low pass filters at 20 kHz! In fact, with oversampling techiques, the cut-off frequency of CD player filter lies in about the same frequency region as is required for SACD. Exept that you can get away with 12-18 dB/oct. for CD, or even 6dB/oct. if you're brave enough.
SA-CD players can produce relatively high levels of HF noise along with audio. Just searching for easily assimilated material turned this up,
CD vs. DVD-A vs. SACD
I was quite surprised to read the hf can actually heat tweeter coils.
Again... all this evidence and anecdotal evidence points to the fact that many listeners probably really do prefer audio that (looked at in absolute terms) is compromised.
I like amps that have a certain distortion spectrum... it makes CD's sound majic
Some like vinyl, so they start with a compromised source but make the most transparent amps they can. Apparently the results can be spectacular.
Dare we now add that those that like SA-CD are inadvertently introducing another variable with the noise... and that wide band systems will react to that noise unpredictably... but the audible results might be, lol, you guessed it, majic Think on this... what is a super tweeter doing when fed all this out of band noise.
Just a sayin' that is all.
CD vs. DVD-A vs. SACD
I was quite surprised to read the hf can actually heat tweeter coils.
Again... all this evidence and anecdotal evidence points to the fact that many listeners probably really do prefer audio that (looked at in absolute terms) is compromised.
I like amps that have a certain distortion spectrum... it makes CD's sound majic
Some like vinyl, so they start with a compromised source but make the most transparent amps they can. Apparently the results can be spectacular.
Dare we now add that those that like SA-CD are inadvertently introducing another variable with the noise... and that wide band systems will react to that noise unpredictably... but the audible results might be, lol, you guessed it, majic
Think on this... what is a super tweeter doing when fed all this out of band noise. Just a sayin' that is all.
It will make your dog tap its foot, and your cat will comment from the kitchen.
I already - along a few others - do not play chess at the Grandmaster level while computers are now playing at that level. I can imagine, therefore, many machines with artificial intelligence could already surpass me in many other mental tasks. It just keeps getting better. -RM
"I believe in extended bandwidth, without a sharp cut-off."
If one were to take Heyser's view that "time", not as in seconds but down to fractions of wavelengths were more important than generally assumed, then in addition to a change in amplitude, the sharper corner also "acts like" more of a change in time which might be audible AS WELL AS the change in amplitude.
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