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Old 30th December 2012, 08:06 PM   #31971
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Resista first and foremost, OLD Holco, and finally new Vishay, especially Dale. Thanks Ed, for your independent measurements.

Last edited by john curl; 30th December 2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 08:57 PM   #31972
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
jcx,
Sorry if I sometimes mix up terms here. Yes Timbre, if you can't tell a cymbal from a triangle is the fact that the frequency response is correct mean that the reproduction of the original waveform is correct? I rather think not. And yes I can hear the difference between those two things if they are recorded correctly.
Interesting question. The dynamic power evolution + harmonic composition ?
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Old 30th December 2012, 09:14 PM   #31973
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Christophe,
I think that we have to look way beyond the simple steady state response of the speaker. We need to look at the transients response or rise time of the signal and how that relates to the original waveform that we are trying to reproduce. I'm way off topic so I will just shut up now.
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Old 30th December 2012, 09:32 PM   #31974
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I totally agree, quite often something fundamental is missing in existing recordings but the >20kHz thing might be useful in making a system better althought it can already work quite good without this extension in frequency range.
I'll do this in big letters this time: THIS IS AN ISSUE WITH THE REPRODUCTION ELECTRONICS. It is not in the recording, it is not a problem of speaker drivers, it is distortion of the playback chain, specifically electrical in nature. Why am I sure? Because I have heard recordings that sound miserable, dead as a dodo, lifeless, not worth a cracker, on other systems ... come completely to life when reproduced correctly! Even ultra cheap systems can make it happen, if they are fully sorted out!

Again, it is about reproducing loudness with subjectively inaudible distortion, which translates in the listener's brain as intensity of sound, which is what all real musical instruments do easily, that's the signature of the real thing. And it is most certainly possible to get audio systems to do that, I've been playing with this "problem" for the last 25 years ...

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Old 30th December 2012, 10:12 PM   #31975
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... but the >20kHz thing might be useful in making a system better althought it can already work quite good without this extension in frequency range.
Err.rrh! The results of loadsa Blind Listening Tests show conclusively that restricting the bandwidth on MUSIC SOUNDS BETTER.

But doing this makes certain supa dupa measurements look bad.

Of course if the supa dupa measurements and your BELIEFS are more important than the sound, you can ignore all these evil Blind Listening Tests on the perfectly valid grounds that they don't agree with your BELIEFS.

The Church has precedent for this dating back to at least Galileo.

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the Meyer & Moran experiment is unfortunately not an example of good scientific practice and it should not have passed the review board.
Err.rrh! Meyer & Moran has probably been subject to greater scientific scrutiny than any other audio experiment in recent history.

Admittedly, it does not have the absoluteness of Harry Olson but for its expressed purpose, to investigate the effect of evil Red Book CD processing on pristine SACD stuff, its a pretty watertight case of 'good scientific practice'.

That's not to say it's perfect. I have loadsa criticisms but none of them affect their conclusion.

Would you care to suggest a recent experiment with different results that you BELIEVE illustrates 'good scientific practice'?

Last edited by kgrlee; 30th December 2012 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:40 PM   #31976
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Default supersonics and Meyer & Moran

Meyer & Moran details from Boston Audio Soc. including list of SACDs

Thanks for this link, Waly.

Anyone have comments on their list of SACDs .. especially on the presence or absence of supersonics?

I note only one Telarc; SACD 3488. Pavel, is it on your vintage supa dupa Telarc list?
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Every 10yrs or so, I have a yen to repeat certain audio experiments I've conducted in Jurassic times on the grounds that new supa dupa tech must make stuff audible which wouldn't have have been audible before.

I encountered very few instances of changed audibility, eg 'audibility of Phase Mucking Up on 'music'.

I'm seriously overdue on my next round. The tech has made huge jumps while I was a beach bum. We now have computing power I only dreamed about in the last millenium. I have managed to crudely harness some of this in the design of SOTA mikes. The quality of recording gear available at low cost is incredible (though there is loadsa rubbish around.)

I no longer have the resources of a competent R&D Dept, purpose built Listening Room, Golden Pinnae gear, ABC box etc to conduct pukka Double Blind Listening Tests but I'm still interested in having a go with my aging pinnae

Last edited by kgrlee; 30th December 2012 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:49 PM   #31977
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Resista first and foremost, OLD Holco, and finally new Vishay, especially Dale. Thanks Ed, for your independent measurements.
A quick visit to a couple of forums, no concensus all possible orders mentioned.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:57 AM   #31978
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Not with the people I know, and work with, including Audible Illusions, Parasound, Constellation and Ayre, to start with a few.
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Old 31st December 2012, 02:06 AM   #31979
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Not with the people I know, and work with, including Audible Illusions, Parasound, Constellation and Ayre, to start with a few.
Your power of persuasion?
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Old 31st December 2012, 04:11 AM   #31980
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Not with the people I know, and work with, including Audible Illusions, Parasound, Constellation and Ayre, to start with a few.
I know they all keep the wives listening from the kitchen.
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