John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 3166 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd December 2012, 08:23 PM   #31651
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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I also don't accept anything by faith, especially when I can use my own ears to prove it.
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"The total harmonic distortion is not a measure of the degree of distastefulness to the listener and it is recommended that its use should be discontinued." D. Masa, 1938
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Old 23rd December 2012, 09:04 PM   #31652
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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It's highly amusing to see all this discussion about the significance of above 20kHz audio, when a high percentage of systems do such a miserable job of reproducing the content below that frequency. I've heard so many examples of where the musical content is guaranteed to have nothing above 10kHz encoded, let alone 20kHz, sound very, very impressive, yet setups which are aiming for the stratosphere in terms of flatness and extension of frequency response are almost unlistenable to.

In audio, implementation is 95% of the battle, the incorporation of elements derived from conclusions of sophisticated theories of what is "correct", and necessary is 5%, if you're lucky ...

Frank
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Old 23rd December 2012, 09:14 PM   #31653
Waly is offline Waly  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telstar View Post
I also don't accept anything by faith, especially when I can use my own ears to prove it.
Agreed, but then it would be fair not to ask anybody to have faith in your ears. Be prepared to respond to challenges coming from the Unfaithful.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:01 PM   #31654
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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In audio, implementation is 95% of the battle, the incorporation of elements derived from conclusions of sophisticated theories of what is "correct", and necessary is 5%, if you're lucky ...

Frank
As an example of what a decent system should do, just found these yesterday; these are excellently recorded, capturing what the game is all about -- puts the the rubbishy sound clips from high end shows to shame, and just using relatively low cost gear ...

Stereo Tube System playing "Rock" Style - YouTube

Stereo Tube System playing "Jazz" Style - YouTube

Kingpin's Tube System plays CLASSICAL

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 23rd December 2012 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:01 PM   #31655
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I've never said Double Blind ABC Listening Tests produce only NULL results. I've spent nearly half a lifetime (bla bla ala JC) trying to refine Blind Listening Tests to make them more discriminating.

The real answer as Frank says is ..
  • some people can't tell the difference
  • some people can
In these tests, you FIRST find out who are the Golden Pinnae and who are the true golden pinnae. THEN you ask the true golden pinnae which they prefer.
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On audibility of frequencies above 20kHz.

I've conducted Double Blind bla bla on this using music and sure enough, some people can and some people can't.

But of the small number of people who could, ie the true golden pinnae, they ALL preferred the Band Limited signal.

As a speaker & microphone designer, I can pontificate at length on why .. but this is an experiment anyone with the inclination can repeat with some effort to check on the results.

At least it puts the importance of ultra HF into perspective.
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I'm sure many here BELIEVE JC and shall henceforth be saved.

JC has miraculous skills to astound & amaze the unwashed masses .. I mean intelligent hard headed Yankee customers.

eg simply by looking at the 'evil 4558' label on the OPAs in a device, he is able to predict the outcome of a Sighted Listening Test.

Through long practice at being a pseudo Blind Listening Test guru in my previous life, I too have a not dissimilar skill. By looking at the circuit topology and also the results of certain esoteric tests, eg Hirata, I can predict the results of certain Listening Tests.

But my tests being Blind, the prediction has an accuracy which is far below JC's miraculous 100% record. Hence the NULL prediction on most of JC's stuff vs evil 4558. This is of little or no interest to this august forum.

However, Blowtorch, JC's masterpiece is special and I confidently predict some of my true golden pinnae can reliably distinguish between Blowtorch and an evil 4558 device in a properly conducted ABC Double Blind Listening Test.

THEN we ask these true golden pinnae which they prefer.

Surely this is of interest to BELIEVERS and unbelievers alike?

I'm disappointed no one has offered any true golden pinnae to take part in this test ... if it ever happens. Please suggest even remote possibilities. The ABC test will weed out the deaf ones.

Of course such a test is a major undertaking. But JC has pontificated at length on the importance of simpler tests some of which he has test equipment for.

Sadly, he declines to put his own product through these same tests. And when he has, the results must remain secret in case they confuse the FAITHFULL.

By grace ye are saved through FAITH ...

In nomine patri et fili et spiritus sancti

Last edited by kgrlee; 23rd December 2012 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:05 PM   #31656
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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most of the cotroversy is that some belive that unlike other humans they can simply decide that they are using their ears only - without controls, Blinding, level matching

in fact some even stipulate that they can't hear the difference under these contorlled conditions - established in psychoacoustics ase needed - and still want us to value their opinons
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:28 PM   #31657
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Well, I am listening through my CTC right now. Sounds pretty darn good. Of course, the most important factor that one wants at this level of sophistication is that the CTC has virtually no SIGNATURE at all. That is the test.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:38 PM   #31658
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kgrlee,
I have never heard the Blowtorch myself and don't expect that this is going to happen, so I have not even considered that in the discussions about the circuit designs talked about here. I may not like it at all, but what is the point of that argument? I have stated that I don't take anything on faith, whether it is John's word or anyone else. As far as Golden Ears are concerned that goes the same there. Just because someone is supposed to be able to discern small differences or not does not tell me I would like what they do. They may have very different criteria than I or many others do about what we are listening to. I have personally listened to systems that are supposed to be the cats meow and I thought you have to be kidding me. A blind test will tell if you do indeed have fair hearing or not, but doesn't mean that what you think is correct I agree with, just that you can discern that there is a difference. I have my own opinion on upper frequency response myself but that doesn't mean I am correct. Not to many devices can get up there and most that do are just noise and have nothing to do with the original signal. That is one reason that I have come to despise titanium, much to much resonance and that some think is accurate sound. But that is only my opinion. I guess the thread is titled Blowtorch but that is not what I am reading here most of the time. Circuit design and how and why things are done and how that is implemented is what I am reading this thread for, not so I can make a judgement on the Blowtorch preamp. Besides, even if I decided I liked it, it is unobtainum anyway.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:49 PM   #31659
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
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to me it's simple, when i listen to music on any sound system and the hairs on my body stand up, than that is the sign that i enjoy very much what i hear....
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:49 PM   #31660
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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in fact some even stipulate that they can't hear the difference under these contorlled conditions - established in psychoacoustics ase needed - and still want us to value their opinons
I love the belief that scientists have that they have full control over the impartiality of "controlled" tests. I would like do an experiment, of such "controlled" tests, where the subjects are purely random, but the people who are running the experiments are carefully selected; at a higher level, they are the "true" subjects. And of course one group of experimenters hold strong, personal beliefs about what the outcome "should" be, in one direction, and the other group, contrary.

What odds will you give that the results of these "scientific" tests will match ...

Frank
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