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Old 7th December 2012, 09:47 AM   #31021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladimirK View Post
We must not generalize distortions, one kind of distortion does not attract care at -40dB level, while another is listenable even at -20dB below noise floor.
Make yourself a favor. Take an audio signal (X), clip-it awfully. Divide-it by a 1/100 resistance's bridge. Add this distorted signal (Y) to the original signal with a potentiometer. Stop when you can hear-it. Measure the level.
Do the calculation: Result in dB= 20 log(Y/X)
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:50 AM   #31022
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
To put the things in perspective, the best loudspeakers have a distortion > -40db under the signal level.
Just curious where you get this from, Christophe. It's a typical comment, that speakers have very poor distortion levels, but I've seen many sets of test results where the critical higher frequencies have distortion levels of the order of -60dB down ...

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Old 7th December 2012, 09:55 AM   #31023
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Just curious where you get this from, Christophe.
My measurements, fas42... But you can go to the JBL site as well, they provide distortion measurements of their speakers, not the worse of the market.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:03 AM   #31024
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Originally Posted by KSTR View Post
It's a strawman test because this is just uncorrelated random noise which we are able to filter out completely. If we couldn't, we would not at all be able listen to any music faithfully without living in a fully sound-proofed room.

Repeat the test with a correlated distorted copy of the original and you'll be surprised.
So even golden ears are not able to detect uncorrelated random noise during a playback? Worth noting if true.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:09 AM   #31025
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Uncorrelated.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:15 AM   #31026
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Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
+1 - I was just about to post the same, but you beat me to it Klaus I'm guessing this 'test' was one dreamed up by Ethan Winer?

Sorry, a Sousa band is not random noise (maybe to some ) I would suggest running the music through one or more of Mr. Gedde's transfer funtions and adding it in at the -60dB level. Simple easy anyone can do it, which means of course no one will and still the claims will be made.

BTW I disagree, due to the "voice in a crowd effect" I would expect one to be more sensitive to a totally different piece buried in the mix.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 7th December 2012 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:22 AM   #31027
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:26 AM   #31028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Sorry, a Sousa band is not random noise (maybe to some )
Neither KSTR nor myself are contending that it is. Uncorrelated, not random. <edit> I note that KSTR was indeed contending random. I myself am not.

Quote:
I would suggest running the music through one or more of Mr. Gedde's transfer funtions and adding it in at the -60dB level. Simple easy anyone can do it, which means of course no one will and still the claims will be made.
Not real-world because most distortions in audio systems are dynamic ones. Tanh in input pairs being a notable exception.

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BTW I disagree, due to the "voice in a crowd effect" I would expect one to be more sensitive to a totally different piece buried in the mix.
That would be because this 'voice in the crowd' was able to be localized by our two ears though ISTM. I doubt Ethan Winer (assuming that it was him) went to the lengths of positioning the Sousa band at a specific spot in the stereo image.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:27 AM   #31029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSTR View Post
It's a strawman test because this is just uncorrelated random noise...
Apparently he is.
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Old 7th December 2012, 10:31 AM   #31030
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
SBTW I disagree, due to the "voice in a crowd effect" I would expect one to be more sensitive to a totally different piece buried in the mix.
+1. Dubbing the same voice make-it more difficult to separate than two different voices. Known effect.
Masking effects.
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