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Old 6th December 2012, 11:15 PM   #30981
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Kevin, my staff will be astonished that there's anyone out there older than I am.
You're so old your staff needs Viagra to be astonished.

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Old 6th December 2012, 11:26 PM   #30982
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I'm so old, I don't buy green bananas.
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:27 PM   #30983
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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The point is that it's a 100% understood question. Absolutely ZERO evidence that there are factors unknown to science going on with amplification and transmission.


I'm so old, if I acted my age, I'd die.

Last edited by RNMarsh; 6th December 2012 at 11:30 PM. Reason: How old are you ?
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Old 6th December 2012, 11:40 PM   #30984
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As regards recording a drum kit, this is highly instructive: - Less Is More - Minimal Drum Miking : Recording Magazine -. Note particularly the sequence leading to the last paragraph ...
On the first HFN & RR Test CD, Mike Skeet recorded a drum solo with a single mike[*]. IMHO, it is probably the most realistic drum recording ever made and fully captures the electric passion of a good drummer in full flight.

On the same test CD is 'The Garage Door'. Listening to this is a 'once in a lifetime' experience. From the info presented in this thread, it is likely only Marshy and perhaps Christophe have the correct gear to do this justice.

Please don't listen if you haven't got the correct gear as you'll probably NOT want to listen to it twice. Save it for when you have at least 500W/channel and some speakers with decent bass.

The drum recording is musical. Alas the 'Garage Door' isn't and comes under 'stuff for audiophiles' though its actually a demonstration of stereo in spite of its headbanging nature.

When Mike speaks at the start, he should sound as though he's only a few feet from you in your garage. (OK, OK. I know yus Yanks have bigger garages than the POMs)

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Plus, some time ago was reading about the efforts of a chap who records musical groups in a natural acoustic space, and releases the results, with a single microphone pair. Yes, a pure stereo pair, on a group with vocalist, electric guitars and drums. How is it done? By using placement and distancing of the musicians from the mic's techniques. And it is very effective by all accounts, a very natural perspective is heard. Unfortunately, can't track down the website at the moment, will mention it if I find it yonder ...
www.ambisonia.com has loadsa recordings made with a single microphone and includes some of the best recordings I've heard of large orchestra, chamber group and also loadsa atmospheric stuff in natural acoustic spaces too. All uncompressed and of the highest quality.

You need to download VVM or Harpex to decode this to your favourite coincident stereo mike arrangement.

[*] I confess. Most of these recordings were made with mikes of my design.

Last edited by kgrlee; 6th December 2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:13 AM   #30985
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fas42,
I am not arguing that a great sound system can't make any recording sound better than an inferior system. I am just suggesting that a bad recording is just that, not well executed and how do you make that sound better than it was laid down on the tracks? Believe me I know what the difference is between a lousy recording and something that is done well. Anyone who wants to tell me that I don't know what a drum kit should sound like then should meet my friend Airto Morrera the number 1 percussionist according to Down Beat Magazine for over ten years now. When I have sat in a recording studio and listened to Stanley Clark or when he was alive Miles Davis I would have had to tell them they just didn't know how to make great music. I have been entertained by others in their homes with no amplification at all, I do know what acoustic music sounds like done by some masters of the craft. A lousy recording done by a hack will always be lousy, it will never capture the magic. I have no problem with minimalistic microphone techniques if the engineer has a clue how to set up the band or vocalist to get the best sound from that particular room or venue. I have had movies mastered on my personal monitors, not my outboard equipment but my speakers that I personally assembled from magnet to cone. We all seem to have our own expertise here, I am not anywhere at that level on the electronics side but I have been messing with waveguides and loudspeakers for a long time. Spun records in the original Whiskey-A-Go-Go when I was still in High School. Still remember the band Yes playing that night on the stage.
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:14 AM   #30986
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Fas42, each situation is different, and record industry is... an industry.
A record has to be attractive enough in a mono radio, as the sound track of a video clip in you Tv set, both to promote the sales. It has to sound as perfect as possible across all kind of hifi systems listened numerous time while you can analyze the slightest and every detail in it. And recorded and mixed often in a very short time.
Not an easy goal.
Often the decision about the miking are imposed by circumstances, organization of sessions, qualities of instruments and musicians, available time, musicians or producer's tastes, size, facilities and acoustic of the place you record in. With no right to mistake, while satisfying the egos of a lot of people (each musician want to be front).
And let freedom for a lot of different atmospheres and colors to be decided during subsequent mixings, sometimes realized in an other studio by a different engineer... And, in the same record, you can have tunes recorded at different time in different studios, by different engineers, different musicians, and all that have to sound coherent in a single album.
Even in the same tune, some tracks can be recorded in different studios with different equipments.
I let-you imagine the part of "make believe" and the part of 'natural recording' :-)
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Last edited by Esperado; 7th December 2012 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:30 AM   #30987
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The quest of audiophiles for true reproduction is an homage to the cheaters sound engineers Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by Esperado; 7th December 2012 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:30 AM   #30988
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Anyone who wants to tell me that I don't know what a drum kit should sound like then should meet my friend Airto Morrera the number 1 percussionist according to Down Beat Magazine for over ten years now.
Small world! Back when I was doing drum triggers, I used to share a facility with his practice studio in Santa Barbara. Got to sit in there and listen to him playing, with Flora singing. Outstanding talent.
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:39 AM   #30989
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I am just suggesting that a bad recording is just that, not well executed and how do you make that sound better than it was laid down on the tracks?
I'm not worried about it being "better", I just concern myself with having it register as a good experience, being convincing, when I listen to it. I deliberately use supposedly poor recordings to give me excellent feedback of progress made; I've given many examples of recordings used for this purpose, such as Led Zep I, generally acknowledged as being hard work on normal hifi's. Of interest, a couple of days ago I put on the soundtrack of Iron Man 2, this is a compilation of classic AC/DC numbers, at a volume that was subjectively deafening - my wife could only understand what I was saying when we were in the next room. But the system was handling it easily, and it demonstrated that the tracks were well recorded, it was a clean sound listening from the other end of the house.

Frank
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Old 7th December 2012, 12:46 AM   #30990
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
A record has to be attractive enough in a mono radio, as the sound track of a video clip in you Tv set, both to promote the sales. It has to sound as perfect as possible across all kind of hifi systems listened numerous time while you can analyze the slightest and every detail in it. And recorded and mixed often in a very short time.
Not an easy goal.
And of course that's fair enough ... just a shame about where the industry is at the moment -- every time I hear a track on the TV from the latest pop "sensation" it's painfully obvious that it would be pretty depressing trying to listen to it on a decent system ...

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