John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 3092 - diyAudio
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:47 AM   #30911
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
This sentence is revealing !!!!!
How-do-you do that ? Do you have an expander in your preamp ? With a "detail" discriminator ?

I need a preamp to can tune the levels, switch and distribute sources WITHOUT deteriorating anything. Like "boosting" i don't know what. Enclosures witch dont boost any frequency ranges and don't add resonances (impossible).
If what you want is to fine tune the level, you can use passive preamp. Isn't that closer to a straight wire?

I have built many aikido, DCB1, JFET based preamp, JLH, etc. In my system I prefer passive preamp (which is no preamp). But I know what is "missing" from passive setup (I need only around one amplifying stage between current output DAC and my amps). But that is my "preference", which may be different from person to person

If you know that people have different taste/preference, what is the point of blind testing to find which preamp is the "winner"?
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:48 AM   #30912
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John, i believe nobody, here, have any doubt about your system ( Loudspeakers apart ?).
The reason why some are crossed against you is not complicated and be resumed in two points:
- The indecent selling price of your Blowtorch.
- The reference to some magical recipes, like burning cables or giving them a direction.

If you were staying stuck to technical aspects: choices of circuit, configurations and parts for their technical characteristics, how to optimize power supplies, etc... You could satisfy both:
- Those who believe in magic (and despite they believes, understand nothing about the subject) because your name is considered by them as a reference and you as a guru,
- and the technicians, who shoud be gracefull to get a little of your long experience in electronic for audio design.

Your problem is that you spend a lot of your time, here, to auto promote your work and yourself (You don't need that). And talk to us like if we were all naive "audiophiles", believing in magic, visiting-you in a hifi show, and listening religiously those crazy conferences and slide shows made by gurus to sell their products.
Neither Nelson Pass, neither Bob Cordell, neither Walf Jung etc... did that kind of things, no one have to suffer the slings and arrows of diyAudio members.

If i can give-you the deep of my thought, your preamp is probably very good, because few parts, good paired components, great care of power supply, and, if measured distortion is correct, because it is not a closed loop, will not suffer from too much negative effects due to bandwidth limitations.
In an other side, i don't believe in any magic, see what i mean ?
Your preamp is the kind of thing many can do, here, at home, for their pleasure and few bucks.
With similar results and without any virgin or machined boxes in plain unobtanium.
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Last edited by Esperado; 6th December 2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 08:50 AM   #30913
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If you know that people have different taste/preference, what is the point of blind testing to find which preamp is the "winner"?
Because YOU or THEY don't know what you or they listen too. (The sources)
You (or they) will prefer a component witch have defects in an opposite side of the sources defects (so correct them) and/or chose a component witch will sound good on a bad recording (not my personnal quest).
You are talking of "taste", i'm looking for transparency.
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Last edited by Esperado; 6th December 2012 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:01 AM   #30914
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post

If a straight wire is what we want, why use preamp at all?
Indeed, in most cases, with modern signal sources, we don't, we just need something that raises and lowers the volume and selects between sources. You may be looking for an effects box, something that alters the signal, and that's fine, but it's not hifi.

If a level-matched ears-only listening test were done of John's preamp versus a piece of wire, my money would be on null identification- which would be the case for any well-engineered (and his preamp IS well-engineered) line stage.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:07 AM   #30915
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Because YOU or THEY don't know what you or they listen too. (The sources)
From my experience with blind tests. The preference of the majority (including me) is usually (if not always) a sound that is musical (good sonics/dynamics, whatever that means), the one that makes you move your body and tap your feet, and the one that project the sound-stage the best.

Now what happen if you TRICK us by playing a distorted music. I will be confused like always (but when it happened I always revert to my reference recording). But that's not my interest.

Many engineers talk only about ideal sound. They have no idea what the majority want. That's fine, if they realize that there are differences in life. Problem is, when they think that others must think like them, must have their preference.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:17 AM   #30916
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Of course, each component adds its own distortion, noise, phase turns, bandwidth limitation, lack of linearities.
So subtract something from the original signal. It is no more complicated than this, but it seems obvious that, for you, It is a sort of "cooking", playing with tastes and flavors...
.
Sorry, not correct. The intention is never to subtract from the audio signal, reduce its integrity; I'm subtracting distortion elements from the reproduction process, not that within the recording, which are most critical to hindering the hearing mechanism's ability to unravel, comfortably, fine detail which is part of the recorded event. I'll give you an example: an excellent "poor" recording I use to evaluate progress with is a CD collection of famous early 30's swing orchestra tunes, original recordings transcribed from 78's. Lots of musicians crammed into a deep space, busy mixes, heavy on the brass crescendos -- you get the picture. On a normal hifi, at a decent volume, this is almost impossible, it's run from the room screaming stuff; when my setup is almost right it's all quite reasonable to listen to, but it doesn't turn me on; but when it's totally sorted everything snaps into focus: each player can be seen clearly, you can identify the layers of the lineup, and the sizzling brass climaxes are subjectively as clean as a whistle, effortless to listen to.

This is what happens when you get psychoacoustics on your side; you give your hearing system a fighting chance to decode the musical message without fatigue, and it rewards you with pleasurable listening ...

Frank
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:28 AM   #30917
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SY, we are on the same track.

Jay, when i'm looking for a studio device, i look for things with character, witch can satisfy *my* preferences. I'm CREATING sounds, there.

When it is about reproduction, i want NO character. A *poor* strait wire. (unfortunately, impossible, speaker side).

My purpose it to help people to know exactly what they are doing.

You can understand why it is a sensible subject. I'm in concern with the fact people can ear my studio work *as* it has been created.

But i can understand people who want to have an agreeable system, repainting most of the sources according to their color preferences. Just they are not on the HIFI side, and we cannot agree or discuss our subjective "preferences" (tastes and colors).
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:40 AM   #30918
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
The preference of the majority (including me) is usually (if not always) a sound that is musical (good sonics/dynamics, whatever that means), the one that makes you move your body and tap your feet, and the one that project the sound-stage the best.
You're right on the money, Jay. What is not generally understood is that there is a huge amount of information encoded in every recording, unless it is an "audiophile" recording -- these are some of the worst recordings I have, because they have been so sterilised, to stop anyone being offended by the slightest irregularity, and they're really quite tedious to listen to. On normal recordings, all the subtle acoustic clues are there, which bring the musical event to life, and which makes them worth listening to; that's part of the crucial information that has to be recovered as cleanly as possible. But, there is also the distortion of the recording process, another part of the information load: that's something that mustn't be emphasised, highlighted in any way more than necessary.

So, to get "musical" playback, the answer is simple ... hah!! Recover low level detail cleanly, and don't spotlight, sharpen recording distortion. It's a fine juggling act, but most certainly achievable ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 6th December 2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:41 AM   #30919
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when it's totally sorted everything snaps into focus: each player can be seen clearly, you can identify the layers of the lineup, and the sizzling brass climaxes are subjectively as clean as a whistle, effortless to listen to.
That is not so magical to achieve with a recording witch contain those characteristics. No records are so perfect, and audiophiles will spend their time to try to reach that on records that do not offer this.

And if they achieve their dream, it is no more hifi.

I use an Atrak encoder+decoder to clean some of my vinyls before sampling them on my computer.
They use mask effects. They help to refocus, clarify, separate sources, remove friction noises and make effortless listening. With no real deterioration on dynamic or tonal characteristics of instruments.
It is like removing a curtain between you and the source.
It is a studio effect, Not Hifi. See what i mean?
In a blind listening, you will (i will) prefer the output of them to the original. But it would be a wrong choice.
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Last edited by Esperado; 6th December 2012 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 6th December 2012, 09:48 AM   #30920
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
In a blind listening, you will (i will) prefer the output of them to the original. But it would be a wrong choice.
If it's his preference, it's not a "wrong" choice, but indeed, it's not hifi. You're not revealing something in the recording, you're creating new sound.
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