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Old 29th November 2012, 12:47 AM   #30321
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Many of the variables reported by listeners which drive engineers nuts are unknown from one place to another. For example, lets say you do not have a wood floor raised from the earth. But instead, live in a high-rise apartment/condo. A steel and concrete floor/walls... a ground plane. Does that grounded flooring (concrete and rebar/I-beams) change the cables L or C, coupling or interference when placed against the floor (ground)? Test it rather than assume. What affect would there be when you raised them off the ground/floor? [I'm not telling] -RNM

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Old 29th November 2012, 12:52 AM   #30322
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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You mean is in -- nylon carpet or a nylon jacket/sheeth around the cable or both -- being vibrated against one another and in proxy to the conductors?
Yep. My first really serious system, 25 years ago drove me mad because the sound would always start degrading in a slow decline from a fresh start, so to speak, and I didn't understand enough at the time to perceive a very strong, possible cause. The speaker cables were sitting on classic, short stranded nylon carpet, treated for static to the point that normal, human activity didn't cause any problems. But, was it good enough to prevent audio issues?

I was into audiophile cables at that point, using van der Hul pipe thickness fellows, which may have made things worse. Or better. Anyway, if in the same situation now I would make sure those two types of plastic weren't in contact ...

Frank
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Old 29th November 2012, 12:53 AM   #30323
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You're missing the point, as are the others.
You can't imagine how many points i'm missing, and how happy i am to miss them...

But i agree i'm a very strange person, i use my audio system to... listen to music.

I don't find my system to have a greyness, a dreary quality about the tone, or any kind unnatural, unpleasantness strange behavior.
My system is ok when i start-it cold, and a little better after 10 minutes.
Is it serious, doctor ?

Or is-it because my cables are 20 years old, so they are burned out right enough ?
or because they are shielded ?
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Last edited by Esperado; 29th November 2012 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 29th November 2012, 12:59 AM   #30324
SY is offline SY  United States
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Christophe, your problem is a lack of a vivid imagination.
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:00 AM   #30325
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And that's fair enough! See, some people can be nice ...!! ,

Frank
That's true at some point the verbal jousting is just a waste of time, I would gladly sit down with Joshua or anyone else and just listen and discuss. What could be better than "OK, show me what you mean let's listen together".


I have often held that the the extremely acrimonius internet wine discussions could be settled by a simple face to face taste of the same wine, you like like this stuff!! OK I think it sucks so what.
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:02 AM   #30326
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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I had the original Lumitron sampling scope and charged line pulse generator circa 1963. Barrie Gilbert is the only person that I have ever met that knows the history. This is my most regreted give away ever, GE TD11 tunnel diodes,6CW4 Nuvistor sampler probably the greatest achievment of making do with what you have that I have ever seen. 25ps resolution in 1963, think about it.
Another great semiconductor bites the dust - tunnel diodes. also used in ultra fast scope trigger circuits, too.
under doing a lot with little... the avalanche pulser using the reverse breakdown of a transistor... in its avalanche mode was reliable and really fast, as well. But not as fast as a tunnel diode -- more along the lines of the mercury wetted contact (used to quinch arcing - a clean break).... 350ps. -RNM

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Old 29th November 2012, 01:08 AM   #30327
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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But i agree i'm a very strange person, i use my audio system to... listen to music.

I don't find my system to have a greyness, a dreary quality about the tone, or any kind unnatural, unpleasantness strange behavior.
My system is ok when i start-it cold, and a little better after 10 minutes.
Is it serious, doctor ?

Or is-it because my cables are 20 years old, so they are burned out right enough ?
Heh ... so do I ...

Never said all systems have it, I just went to a hifi show, things have improved from what they were, say 10 years ago; and some setups were doing very nicely.

You've got a headstart because you have very efficient speakers, and have done a big round of optimising already. Very powerful amplifier, very efficient speakers is one of the easiest ways to bypass many of the problems, because in normal listening the key components are in first gear, and with hardly any pressure on the accelerator.

How I would determine where the system was, would be to put on a really difficult recording, what people would call a "bad'un" and wind up the volume. Right up. And keep it there for some considerable time. That would tell how well sorted these sorts of problems were ...

Frank
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:09 AM   #30328
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Christophe, your problem is a lack of a vivid imagination.
By day, I'm afraid, yes.
By night, i have nightmares. I dream i'm an audiophile, obliged to test all the cables of the universe with the same tune till the end of my life.
Of course, it is an endless quest of Grail, because i forget the exact sound of the first hundred ones, so i'm obliged to loop...
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:11 AM   #30329
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Yep. . The speaker cables were sitting on classic, short stranded nylon carpet, treated for static to the point that normal, human activity didn't cause any problems. But, was it good enough to prevent audio issues?

I was into audiophile cables at that point, using van der Hul pipe thickness fellows, which may have made things worse. Or better. Anyway, if in the same situation now I would make sure those two types of plastic weren't in contact ...

Frank
Isnt that more of a charge build-up issue? -RNM
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Old 29th November 2012, 01:31 AM   #30330
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How I would determine where the system was, would be to put on a really difficult recording, what people would call a "bad'un" and wind up the volume. Right up. And keep it there for some considerable time. That would tell how well sorted these sorts of problems were ...
Fas, read between my lines what i try to pass very friendly (trying to save your future time).

I don't care to have a top system. By habit (but this forum is special) i never talk about, never makes any demonstration, and when a visitor listening to music says he is impressed by my enclosures, i just answer "thank-you", because it bores-me.

I tried to have a system witch satisfy my professional needs enough (not so simple, and a lot of work on electronic). Able to bring me too a reasonable pleasure when i listen to the records i love.

I don't listen to records i don't like, and i don't like bad recordings. If for some reason a record misses basses or is too aggressive, i don't change my cables, i power on my equalizer.
I'm sure my equalizer add a lot of PIM PAM POUM, but *this* record just sound better that way. In fact, i just do the job that the man in the mastering room had misses.

Don't-you think it is reasonable ?
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Last edited by Esperado; 29th November 2012 at 01:49 AM.
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