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Old 27th November 2012, 05:25 PM   #30051
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post

I'm not an audiophile. I don't want my system to *make* good sound.
I want my system to be *transparent*.
This and the rest of your post might be a bit confusing. To *get* a good sound, we usually need to solve perfectly power supplies, shielding, EMI immunity. Sterile sound (as a result of ultralow THD only oriented design) does not necessarily mean "exact" or "natural" sound.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:37 PM   #30052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post

I'm not an audiophile. I don't want my system to *make* good sound.
I want my system to be *transparent*.
Evidently, you are not interested in the sense of music realism.
It seem to me that this may be the major difference between you and me.

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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
As a sound engineer i can compare some of my original mix's mirror copy to their industrial reproduction (CD vs Vinyls). I can make direct comparisons, i'm not inventing an ideal dreamed reproduction. See what i mean ?
I do see what you mean apparently you have no interest in the sense of music realism.
The details between the original mix and the CD produced from it may be the same.
If the music was recorded and mixed without any consideration for music realism, the CD may sound the same as the recording and mixing. Both wouldn't have a sense of music realism.

I also worked for a while as recording engineer, so I have a clue about what can be captured in the process of recording and mixing. When a certain aspect isn't captured in recording and mixing, it wouldn't be there in the final product.

It's easier to have a mediocre recording and mixing than a really good one (good in the sense of music realism). For mediocre recordings, mediocre reproduction gear is good enough.

For a mediocre taste, mediocre recordings and reproduction gear are satisfactory.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:37 PM   #30053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
It seems obvious that an amp will behave better if ration V/A is constant on all the bandwitch than to see a speaker/cable where the impedance vary from 6 ohms to 150, and goes near 0 at HF because capacitance of the cable.
The normal model of a speaker cable as t line is C per foot and L per foot. While the capacitive reactance of the cable will continue it's downward trend, the distributed inductance is still there. Until the cable starts to absorb the signal, the cable Z will remain as z = sqr(L/C). (for the lengths involved, R/G have not been invoked due to the KISS requirement.)

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Old 27th November 2012, 05:54 PM   #30054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Evidently, you are not interested in the sense of music realism.
It seem to me that this may be the major difference between you and me.
I believe you are misreading him. Music realism should not depend on the system adding something to the signal.

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Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I do see what you mean – apparently you have no interest in the sense of music realism.
Again, I don't believe he meant that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
For a mediocre taste, mediocre recordings and reproduction gear are satisfactory.
That seems as somewhat of a slap in the face. I assume you hadn't meant it as such.
edit: I do indeed understand the gist of what you said, but it didn't come across very well.

While I personally am extremely discerning in what I consider as far as music reproduction fidelity, I am not interested personally in maintaining a system which can provide the ultimate soundstage or performance. It is not on my bucket list at this point in my life. I've no issue helping technically those who do this however..

jn

Last edited by jneutron; 27th November 2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 27th November 2012, 05:56 PM   #30055
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Hey, Joshua! What have you been ADDING to the audio signal? Can I have some? '-)
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Old 27th November 2012, 06:08 PM   #30056
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Default never without H2

Any system, has significant H2 ..... if not from funky electronics, then from speakers, themselves. No one has heard reproduced music... not the recording engineer, mixer, producer, musician without some H2 in it. With systems with very low levels of H2 are produced, people generally do not like it and think it is not musical or it is unnatural. Its as if you need to put back a little H2 to be accepted and i am sure this has been done deliberately in some equipment to make it more musical and less sterile. HOWEVER --

When you listen mostly to LIVE music ...without amplification and loudspeakers.... it does sound closer to the system which is serile. And, if the front end of the chain is recorded with very low distortion and no EQ ... it sounds best or more like Live sounds with a playback that also has very low distortion. Thx-RNMarsh

Last edited by RNMarsh; 27th November 2012 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Is it Live or reproduced that you prefer the sound to?
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Old 27th November 2012, 06:16 PM   #30057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post

Greisinger's work with speakers is closer.

Didn't he also show that 20kHz brickwall filters were inaudible? Not that that 's relevant but I don't have much to say about this IAD stuff right now. If both channels are the same where does the difference come from (this with respect to the cable prop delay issue)? Moving cones, bobbing heads, I would love to have a demo since the discussion around building the central image and having the rest of the soundstage fill in (and supposedly being vulnerable to these issues) is intriguing.

EDIT - Is this work on Dave's website, he does love to share.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 27th November 2012 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 27th November 2012, 06:22 PM   #30058
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10uS? My aunt fanny! '-)
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Old 27th November 2012, 06:23 PM   #30059
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Steps in the response due to impedance mismatch? Oh sure! '-)
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Old 27th November 2012, 06:24 PM   #30060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron
All transmission lines have a propagation speed, v = c/sqr(LC), c being lightspeed.
The high frequency speed is v =1/sqrt(LC), where L and C are per metre. This assumes that series resistance and parallel conductance can be ignored - not true for audio. You can choose to regard a slowly-rising audio signal as consisting of an infinite series of infinitesimal impulses but this is generally not a fruitful way of doing low frequency electronics.

Quote:
If you use load which matches the line, the amp will NOT see any capacitance, no matter what the cable C is, no matter how long it is.
Possibly true, but potentially misleading to the majority of people who don't understand that line impedance varies with frequency. I say possibly true because the cable characteristic impedance is not a pure resistance at audio frequencies so a matched cable, even if achieved (unlikely), will present a reactance to the source.
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