John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 2974 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd November 2012, 04:25 PM   #29731
SY is offline SY  United States
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OK, so non-exotic ICs show no issues with Ron's test, no issues with the Hirata test. Are we to conclude that they'll do anything your expensive stuff will do (other than satisfy fashion)?

You're trying to make a point but I can't figure out what it is.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 04:25 PM   #29732
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No SY, just with your double blind listenings, will they sound the same. In my experience, there is still a sonic difference between 'good' IC's and the best discrete designs, so I continue making the best discrete designs that I can, in parallel with the best IC based designs that I can. Over the decades, we have tried: specific IC types, cherry picked IC's, specific manufacturers of a particular IC (like the 5534), and hybrid discrete and IC combinations. None have proven to be as good as the best all discrete designs.

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Old 23rd November 2012, 04:33 PM   #29733
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Well, some of us trust our ears. You choose not to. That's your right.

Nonetheless, what's the point you're trying to make about measurement? What does the Hirata measurement get you that others don't, and if (as you claim) it doesn't correlate with listening (since it shows that conventionally engineered ICs are fine), what's the point of it?
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Old 23rd November 2012, 04:42 PM   #29734
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About 30 years ago, Dr. Hirata published another paper that showed the differences between a number of discrete amplifier designs, both tube and transistor. It made a difference in these cases. As I recall, the best amp was the Marantz tube 8B, and the worst amp measured was the Crown DC-300. Why? That is the question. It was certainly different than harmonic distortion tests made with the same components, that tended to predict the opposite result.
This is WHY we like to note and even develop tests that show SOMETHING not seen by harmonic distortion measurements and its relatives, like IM.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 05:37 PM   #29735
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
About 30 years ago, Dr. Hirata published another paper that showed the differences between a number of discrete amplifier designs, ....
This is WHY we like to note and even develop tests that show SOMETHING not seen by harmonic distortion measurements and its relatives, like IM.
It is a good thing to developp measurements procedures able to show more objectively what we can hear. But one thing is for sure, if we don't know yet what to measure to represent all the things we can hear, NOTHING we can hear can go against law of physics.... "Burning cable ?" 'Sens of cables with AC" ?
Again and again, there is so many points where we can improve the parts (bandwidth, distortion, linearity etc...) in a way we can SEE and HEAR, even in blind tests, that the most elementary sense of logic (i mean for people doted of minimal intelligence) drive-us to work on it first before using blind magic.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 05:55 PM   #29736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Again and again, there is so many points where we can improve the parts (bandwidth, distortion, linearity etc...) in a way we can SEE and HEAR, even in blind tests, that the most elementary sense of logic (i mean for people doted of minimal intelligence) drive-us to work on it first before using blind magic.
Here is the logic:
1. What can be better than eternal love?
2. Nothing can be better than eternal love.
3. Is hamburger better than noting?
4. Yes, hamburger is better than nothing.
5. Conclusion: hamburger is better than eternal love.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:29 PM   #29737
RNMarsh is online now RNMarsh  United States
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Default And then I sold it -

Years ago, I supercharged a V8 engine and did everything known to mankind and else where to it as well as to the whole car to take more power, stop faster, handle better etc. ... it was still street drivable... though I could accelearate so hard, it would lift the front tires. It produced some great numbers on many tests. BUT - I couldnt then drive it on the street because I couldnt get it to pass smog tests anymore. The measurments all looked good from a dyno perspective, etc. Other tests it didnt pass. Subjectively great, test-wise a no-go.
It took me almost 5 years and 4 brands of car computors and special hi-flow cat converters and it did pass the smog tests and got it 'approved' for licensing. It didnt run or handle any better but met the numbers and was clean. Then I sold it. Does any of this sound familiar to audio mods and upgrades? Thx-RNMarsh
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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:40 PM   #29738
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other than not electrocuting people, starting fires or interfering with RF I didn't know the government was forcing hi end manufacturers to meet any particular set of numbers

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Old 23rd November 2012, 06:41 PM   #29739
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Conclusion: hamburger is better than eternal love.
As noticed, my message was wrote for people with minimal intelligence too.
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Old 23rd November 2012, 07:07 PM   #29740
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Well, that's me. Minimal intelligence, coupled with a complete disregard for the laws of physics, and actually believing what I hear as a reasonably accurate determination of what sounds good and what does not.
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