Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th November 2012, 05:33 AM   #29231
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
I tend to use 2 op amps in a multiloop configuation for that much gain
Of course.
Closed loop means gain margin. Too much gain= distortion and low bandwidth.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 05:42 AM   #29232
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
RNMarsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 2457 Cascade Trail; Cool, CA. 95614
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
Yesterday, I listened to Britten's recording of his War Requiem, surely one of the highest achievements of the Recording Age. I was thinking of Mr. Marsh's assertion that he was confident of damning any small speaker in a Blind Listening Test simply from the lack of bass.

The War Requiem easily makes obvious if a speaker doesn't have extended LF.

The fact is that in nearly 20 yrs of Blind Listening Tests, no one has brought or asked for Zarathustra, Bach's warhorse or the like when choosing which speakers they prefer. The nearest has been Ultravox's Vienna and on that occasion, the small speaker, though identified as lacking in bass, still won out.

From these tests, one might surmise, bass response is only one factor in one's choice of a speaker .. even among those who claim it as paramount.
I covered this bass issue earlier here, so i wont repeat myself. Just to say I listen to Blues a lot (10,000+ tunes on CD plus more via down loads) and the 4-5 string bass is a fundamental instrument in that music and others. As you say "... easily makes obvious if a speaker doesnt have extended LF." --- when you play Blues. Check it -bass/blues -out on Wiki. We dont all listen to just classical music. Thx-RNM

Last edited by RNMarsh; 12th November 2012 at 05:46 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 05:42 AM   #29233
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
Are these Russian OPAs?
Bad Soviet copies of American opamps, except К284УД1 that was thin film hybrid for medical applications, awfully expensive, with matched JFETs.
But we did not have other choice, behind the fence.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 07:25 AM   #29234
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Cooktown, Oz
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
I covered this bass issue earlier here, so i wont repeat myself. Just to say I listen to Blues a lot (10,000+ tunes on CD plus more via down loads) and the 4-5 string bass is a fundamental instrument in that music and others. As you say "... easily makes obvious if a speaker doesnt have extended LF."
Mr. Marsh, it's very unlikely I'll be able to get you into a properly conducted Blind Listening Test this millenium so any of my (or your) assertions about your possible performance are just wanking on my part.

I apologise for this and hope yus guys will see beyond my sh*t stirring and regard what I say as just reporting what I've found in testing some of the best ears in the business over nearly 2 decades. The Blind Listening Test results are factual.

My interpretation of them may of course be flawed. But any alternative interpretation should also fit the facts. ie the Blind Listening Test results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 07:29 AM   #29235
diyAudio Member
 
vacuphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Right behind you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
The latest switchmode offerings from Mark Levinson and Anthem fared quite badly in the recent Stereophile (December 2012). JA makes an attempt to correlate some spuriae with Fremer's dissatisfactions with the ML and also reports finding the "overall sonic picture ... flat and uninvolving". For the Anthem, JA complains of higher-order distortion appearing at higher power levels, and Kalman Rubinson declines to recommend the product.

A tough business.
Whereas the class D amp designed by Bruno Putzeys was tested very well by Stereophile. So, it is not the technology, but the implementation.
__________________
Everything eats everything else, given appetite and opportunity.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 09:22 AM   #29236
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Cooktown, Oz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Good guess, about distortions. All answers are on graphs in datasheets. Particuarly, THD+N VS signal level, and gain/phase VS frequency. Hint: how much feedback would you get on 20 KHz for 20 DB gain? How much would you get for 60 dB gain? How much low level distortions will be reduced by feedback on high end of the band in question?
Thanks for this Wave. This is how most people would base their choice.

But as you may have realised, I'm inordinately interested in Listening Tests .. far more than in new xIM tests.

What did you hear on your Whisper Test with 4558, 5532, 5534, 4562 & opa1612?

If the Listening Test results were confusing and impossible to interpret, that's OK too .. cos that's what often happens. It takes special care to design a Listening Test (especially Blind) to get firm recommendations. But I'd like to know.

But I'd like to know if you found any heirarchy among the five you tested on your Whisper Test or did they all behave similarly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 02:53 PM   #29237
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
I found that we Siberian bear farmers use our wit instead of huge investments.
It is so, it's typical to highly intelligent people coming from countries where the economic situation is highly restricted. I saw it many times in people who came to my country from Russia and other ex-USSR countries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 02:56 PM   #29238
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
There is a nice Op amp for mike amplification at Analog device, low noise with symmetrical inputs: the SSM2019
I used-it to design a self powered belt mixing desk for news coverage and a little box you can plug on microphone booms. Working ok with the phantom powered mikes (good rejection).
Anough for the job, but not so good than discreet mike preamps with good trasfos for studio or stages.

This is the only place (mike preamps) where i found tubes can bring an advantage with their warm strong and natural figure on some recordings, like male voices. Don't know (or may-be yes ;-) why the first electronic analog interface is always so determinant. (Same thing with digital DA converters).

There is too useful line drivers and receivers: SSM2142 & SSM2141 (while i was not fully satisfied by the way they sounded, a (very) little flat).

I don't know if they are still in production.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 03:15 PM   #29239
diyAudio Member
 
Esperado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
This is the only place (mike preamps) where i found tubes can bring an advantage
I found the same with photography, where old chemical negatives can bring a magic that digital captors never give. Specially when you want to go for special effects like low key or high key.
__________________
Ultimate Protection and more.The Only Source of Knowledge is experience, everything else is just information” ©A. Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2012, 03:50 PM   #29240
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
This is the only place (mike preamps) where i found tubes can bring an advantage with their warm strong and natural figure on some recordings, like male voices.
I found one more place: power amps. Explanation is obvious: we require more power gain from this 2 parts of the chain than from the rest that works almost on the same level.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers.” -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:30 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2