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Old 6th November 2012, 02:18 PM   #28981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Just he made his body dancing imperceptibly when the equipment he wanted to sell was playing.
That's the involuntary "toe tapping" in reviewer speak.
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Old 6th November 2012, 03:12 PM   #28982
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Brad, did you by any chance do the JBL LSR25p?
Nope.
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Old 6th November 2012, 03:33 PM   #28983
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
What I mean, subconscious reactions that happen before we realize that the sound goes from speakers.
The first time a musician, talking to an other during a pause, had turned his head in direction of the speakers as i called his name from the cabin," i saw that is was good".
I don"t understand why all the others were laughing after that.
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
have to be hammered hard for a hour or two at least with serious pub rock or equivalent to come to life
Did-you mean two hours of Spinal Tap music with your volume at 11 each time you want to listen at " A Little Night Music " ?
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Old 6th November 2012, 03:59 PM   #28984
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Some very nice indicators, Anatoliy ... just curious, how close can you get to the speaker drivers with that illusion being maintained ...?
Nothing is perfect, Frank.
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Old 6th November 2012, 04:00 PM   #28985
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Wavebourn is on the right track to making 'progress' in our field. Many here are pretty good engineers or at least techs. There are only so many ways to do something, and many paths have been taken already, perhaps many times. It is important to note the 'usefulness' or "success" of each path and in the pursuit of audio quality, choose the 'best' paths.
It is not always easy to take a particular path or cheap to employ, but not ALL paths lead to the 'best' in audio quality. At the same time, there is not ONE path that stands above all others as being the BEST path possible.
So, whether we employ horns, direct radiators, Manger speakers, electrostatics, ribbons, or some other more exotic speaker system, the PROOF is in the listening. IF we can fool ourselves or others, (for example, I was SURE at one time, that Dick Sequerra had a live violinist in his listening room) and THAT is a major point of the 'exercise' of making high quality audio.
Lack of generating 'listener fatigue' is another.
There may be many other 'virtues' we can put in, as well but these, to me, are the two most important in my audio designs.
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Old 6th November 2012, 04:04 PM   #28986
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Originally Posted by kgrlee View Post
Well said. It so happens that speakers which do well in Blind Listening Tests are also the ones where I've experienced similar things to what you've described and seen it happened to other people too.

Most of my recordings are of live concerts so have cues of this sort which can startle the listener when he realises they are actually on the recording.

In fact, I'll stick my neck out and claim that speakers that don't do well in my Blind Listening Tests will NOT be able to fool the listener as you have described.
Right; and when there are some "cues" that can be "ignored" that means it's not high-end yet, even if it is very close. It is what I meant. Like when I play 11 Hz through subwoofer and increasing signal level start hearing "Rrrrr" that means I hear distortions that are cues to "reproduction".
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Old 6th November 2012, 04:15 PM   #28987
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
The first time a musician, talking to an other during a pause, had turned his head in direction of the speakers as i called his name from the cabin," i saw that is was good".
I don"t understand why all the others were laughing after that.
Yes, I had similar cases too.
Once when Sergey Zadvorny was alive, after one home concert we sat around the table drinking tea with cookies. I switched on the record I made on the concert, we continued conversation, and after some phrase Sergey said on the record his concertmaster turned the head to Sergey at the table and answered.
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Old 6th November 2012, 04:34 PM   #28988
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Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
Maybe we need to add a switch to audio systems that does what the TV's do; "torch mode" to sell them and "ISF" mode to listen to them.
I respectfully disagree Demian.

When I worked on my home system (I always use myself as a guinea pig), my wife kept asking, "What are you still working on? It already sounds great!". But when later I took her to some demonstrations of known brands in the mall, she understood well what I am working on. Now she says, I spoiled her tastes, and she can't stand the sound from stock sound systems.

One more example, people saw prototypes of my foldable line arrays during last BAF, when I used them for PA with large diaphragm condenser mikes and 31-band EQ. This system, but with prototype of my vacuum tube Pyramid amp, and with my class-A console, was still in my Armada after one Saturday concert when we come to flea market in Walnut Creek one Sunday. I saw Diego Jameau singing there, and told him that I have my system with me. We set it up quickly, and he started singing smiling from ear to ear. Soon he was surrounded by people, including sellers who left their stuff. One of them said her brother is musician and she wanted to buy such system for him. When I said that it is a prototype and how much it costs, her face was sad.

My experience is, people prefer naturally sounding systems from the moment they heard them. It work as if an ear opening. Like popping of corks from ears. Like threshold of expectations change, and what used to be "sounds good" is no good anymore.
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Old 6th November 2012, 05:15 PM   #28989
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Lack of generating 'listener fatigue' is another.
Interesting question raised often on the forums.
I'm always very fatigued, walking out of a concert. More the concert was good, more i'm fatigued, like after a night of love (as far as i can remember).
Same thing when it is about listening to music with a good system. More the system is involving, more it catch your attention with details, more it brings fatigue: Transients, high dynamic, high levels, all along with grove and beauty of the played music kills you .
I do not power on very often my big system to listen music, and cannot afford-it for ambiance music in background. A listening session require a very special approach from me, like going to concert, a lot of attention, that can not really exceed much of a couple of hours.
How about you ?
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Last edited by Esperado; 6th November 2012 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 6th November 2012, 05:24 PM   #28990
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Interesting question raised often on the forums.
I'm always very fatigued, walking out of a concert. More the concert was good, more i'm fatigued, like after a night of love.
Same thing when it is about listening to music with a good system. More the system is involving, more it catch your attention with details, more it brings fatigue: Transients, high dynamic, high levels, all along with grove and beauty of the played music kills you .
I do not power on my big system to listen music, and cannot afford-it for ambiance music in background. A listening session require a very special approach from me, like going to concert, a lot of attention, that can not really exceed much of a couple of hours.
How about you ?
Concerts are usually too long, in my opinion.

After a spectacular performance of Also Sprach Zarathustra at Disney Hall, I turned to Floyd Toole and imitated a radio host: "And it looks like we'll have an encore! Ein Heldenleben!
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