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Old 28th October 2012, 03:52 PM   #28571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Thanks to all this marketing bulls...
Christophe, I have found this strong talk to be counter-productive. Let's wait and disscuss the data, the TL071 is certainly better than a 741 but why not something from the last 5yrs. pretty easy to find even two orders of magnitude better? And how about the relatively poorer performance of some of the audiophile certified class A circuits that Jan alluded to? If PIM is as bad as jitter (that's IF) then it applies here too, yes, no?

Personally I don't think this will lead anywhere but at least there is some technical content.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:17 PM   #28572
SY is offline SY  United States
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Scott, I think you're missing the sarcasm, directed at those with "mysterious" knowledge of the "secrets," rather than the practitioners who are driven by data and actual science.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:40 PM   #28573
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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I think I caught it correctly, but it's a good thing we are not permitted much discourse in languages other than English in here, as I might attempt something ironic/sarcastic in my poor German or my totally execrable French , and be entirely misunderstood.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:42 PM   #28574
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On this site, how do we distinguish sarcasm from sincerely-held beliefs? No opinion seems to be so barmy that nobody holds it. Of course, some of us can tell some of the time just from who said it but that doesn't always work. Should we use a mandatory emoticon when we say the opposite of what we actually believe?
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:42 PM   #28575
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
the TL071 is certainly better than a 741 but why not something from the last 5yrs. pretty easy to find even two orders of magnitude better?
Yes, i found 741 pretty bad for audio, and don't used-it at its time. In the same time we were yet aware of commutation speed induced problems while we were using planar power transistors since 1970 instead of 3055.

While TL071 was quite correct as long as you didn't asked him too much output current, it was not so good for mix stages of desks. Used in inverting mode, its gain increasing each time a slide of the desk was added, it was easy to feel the lost of transparency as much as the gain was increased. Then appeared those nice Current feedback Op amps...15/20 years ago ?
End of the story, no more problem. Thanks to this 500V/µs.

What is counter productive ? To speak about feedback as "something bad" for audio, as a lot of gurus did at this time, or try to understand, and explain, how behave closed loop systems, as Bob Cordell did, in the same time ?

Notice i made no reference of IM (TIM or PIM), while it is everywhere behind.
Did i understood well what was in your mind ?
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Last edited by Esperado; 28th October 2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:51 PM   #28576
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On this site, how do we distinguish sarcasm
With a little respect to the author of it, when it looks "too big" (Plastic eat the sound etc.) ?
Yes, it was ironic. Typical French humor, sorry for that.
We love to reason by absurd in the country of Descartes.
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Last edited by Esperado; 28th October 2012 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:53 PM   #28577
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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On this site, how do we distinguish sarcasm from sincerely-held beliefs? No opinion seems to be so barmy that nobody holds it. Of course, some of us can tell some of the time just from who said it but that doesn't always work. Should we use a mandatory emoticon when we say the opposite of what we actually believe?
At my boyhood pal's home, the Duttons had a practice of holding the forefinger in the air when they meant something to be taken as sarcastic. Of course gestures with the hands have wildly different interpretations in different cultures and at different times. Some of the misconceptions found their way into advertizing --- many Italians are still laughing about the old images of "Chef Boyardee", the cartoon depiction based on a real chef, holding his hand up making a circle with thumb and forefinger, which had a very different meaning than intended.
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Old 28th October 2012, 04:58 PM   #28578
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Notice i made no reference of IM (TIM or PIM), while it is everywhere behind.
Did i understood well what was in your mind ?
No problem, I certainly understand the Dr. House like sarcasm, but I think there is some real technical meat on the operating table here with Ron's second paper. There might even be a couple of freight trains on the same track in opposite directions.
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Old 28th October 2012, 05:01 PM   #28579
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holding his hand up making a circle with thumb and forefinger, which had a very different meaning than intended.

Gee, I thought that meant "Be seeing you"
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Old 28th October 2012, 05:12 PM   #28580
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To Scott, at first degree, this time.
I love Integrated Circuits.
I use them as often i can find a OPA witch reach my needs.
They simplify my work, their little surface present a lot of technical advantages, and, thanks God, do not allow easily caps inside.
Please, re-read my message, all of it was second degree, except the first sentences.
It was a credit to all those guys, working anonymous in laboratories, like you, i believe, because i remembered your name at the bottom of some of those luminous (clear, complete, and often elegant) data-sheets and enjoyed so much your products.
About the ron's paper, i do not now about. And don't have any doubt some things are interesting inside. Just i do not reason that way any more, with kinda schizophrenics concepts.
All my reasonings are time correlated, when it is about audio. Delays, levels, order of magnitude. And my measurements to track how they correlate together.
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Last edited by Esperado; 28th October 2012 at 05:25 PM.
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