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Old 27th October 2012, 08:55 PM   #28541
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Within an amplifier, every signal component frequency modulates every other by some (small) amount. We accept this easily for loudspeakers, and for a single full-range driver is very significant. A generic amplifier is also full range, but the magnitude of effects is still under discussion.

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Old 27th October 2012, 08:58 PM   #28542
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I don't discuss differences in magnitudes of mechanical and electrical distortions. Electrical distortions sound nastier. Period.
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Old 27th October 2012, 09:36 PM   #28543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
This is not even remotely close to what I am talking about.
Mr. Marsh, have you got a method to get rid of
Quote:
.. a distortion limiting parameter: common-mode rejection.... rejection of the dc component, as i call it, or the 'average' of a non-sine wave.
which does not introduce phase shift?

The methods I'm aware of are either linear & minimum phase (ie as God intended) or non-linear. But even the evil DSP and non-linear methods introduce big phase shifts.

I apologise for inserting (pseudo?) guru microphone stuff into this thread.
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:30 PM   #28544
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Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
For people who have access to the AES Convention Paper 8722:
Any similarities with the content of this patent?

METHOD AND APPARATUS TO MEASURE DIFFERENTIAL PHASE AND FREQUENCY MODULATION DISTORTIONS FOR AUDIO EQUIPMENT

George
There is an element of the truely bizzare here, an extremely verbose recent patent application citing wow and flutter of cassette recorders and VCR's, I don't get it. I mean even AM radios have outlived cassettes in cars.
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:32 PM   #28545
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Yes, Ron is 'verbose'. He writes his own patents, how about you?
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Old 27th October 2012, 10:46 PM   #28546
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Just came back from the AES. Met Ed Simon and Jan Didden there. Had a good time, but I am old, and I am glad to be back home. '-)
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Old 27th October 2012, 11:05 PM   #28547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
There is an element of the truely bizzare here, an extremely verbose recent patent application citing wow and flutter of cassette recorders and VCR's, I don't get it. I mean even AM radios have outlived cassettes in cars.
I believe the attempt is made to distinguish similar techniques from his by virtue of their application. That is, he is not attempting to patent a wow and flutter meter as used for tape machines, or a system for characterizing chroma distortions in video, etc.

Not sure if the strategy is going to be productive.
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Old 27th October 2012, 11:11 PM   #28548
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Yes, Ron is 'verbose'. He writes his own patents, how about you?
Pro se patents are usually a bad thing, they might feel good at the time but one tends to be blind to how they actually work in favor of their "baby". Nothing worse that an inventor written patent coupled with a bad examiner, in fact someone was even able to re-patent the current feedback op-amp because he thought he invented it in 1992.

I have no interest is re-engaging on the PIM discussion, I would rather like to see clarification of Jan's observation. If Ron's test shows most modern op-amps to measure perfectly I would like to see you address that in light of past comments.

Who's The Devil in this discussion, does anyone know?
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Old 27th October 2012, 11:19 PM   #28549
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Not sure if the strategy is going to be productive.
A typical strategy is to show how previous art was adequate for the time but now something better is needed as the art moves forward, but mechanical analog recording is not except to a tiny group.
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Old 27th October 2012, 11:19 PM   #28550
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Just came back from the AES. Met Ed Simon and Jan Didden there. Had a good time, but I am old, and I am glad to be back home. '-)
Are you coming tomorrow to BAF John?

Edit: listening I Hear A Rhapsody, by Bill Evans & Jim Hall on Undercurrent. Nice music, but annoying rumble around 20 Hz. What is it? It is not stable, like modulated by amplitide by noise.
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Last edited by Wavebourn; 27th October 2012 at 11:25 PM.
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