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Old 20th October 2012, 05:29 PM   #28291
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
So a room was filled with systems playing at high level and with unsynchronized source material, looping indefinitely. Nothing blew up as it turns out. But oh the sound.
That contravenes the Hague Convention of 1899.

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Old 20th October 2012, 05:46 PM   #28292
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That contravenes the Hague Convention of 1899.

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Indeed. It was for a time considered for one version of the Harmanizer, where recalcitrant employees would be sent to have attitude adjustments. A Project Xylophone approach was ruled out because even only partial sonic disintegration left lasting disfigurements.
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Old 20th October 2012, 06:01 PM   #28293
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It was for a time considered for one version of the Harmanizer, where recalcitrant employees would be sent to have attitude adjustments. A Project Xylophone approach was ruled out because even only partial sonic disintegration left lasting disfigurements.
Remind me not to cross you!

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Old 20th October 2012, 06:51 PM   #28294
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Remind me not to cross you!

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Oh don't worry --- it wasn't my idea. And I left Harman in late 2004, probably never to return.
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Old 20th October 2012, 07:25 PM   #28295
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Let me try again. Did you ever hear this 'Wall of Sound' PA system?
I had tried to answer yet; John. It was not looking exactly like that, as far as i can remember, so many years ago. How do-you want me to remember details, 40 years later ?
More like an immense flat wall of JBL enclosures, from the stage behind the musicians up to the roof of the "Palais des sports" in Paris.
No separated tweeters, just enclosures. No rounded or suspended assembly (as far as i remember too). The enclosures where hidden in the dark, in the beginning of the show behind a black transparent curtain, then, suddenly lighted with colors projectors, and the public can discover this surrealistic wall.
I'm not sure at all, but i think the enclosures where JBL 4333B ones. (Blue version ?)
No visible guitar amp neither, and the sound of jerry Garcia was very clean, like direct plug, so far from the bluesy saturated sound of his first solos when he used his Les Paul Gibson. This kind of warm guitar sound i use to love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl
Do you really want to get into this sort of exchange?
To compare the pros and cons arguments of technical solutions and ideas with as or more experienced people than me in an open minded way ? Yes.
Listen religiously to the teachings of some gurus and take their claims for granted ? No.

We had, you and me, a long but different live and experiences, so we sometimes drawn different conclusions. We have in common, if I understand well, to have lived our passion for music and music reproduction at the expense of all other things. I just ask-you to understand that English is not my language. I feel uncomfortable and stupid with it, a little like a baby. And if i can look like abrupt, sometimes, when i argue, it is just that i do not have enough expertise in the language to be as elegant, nuanced and humorist than i can be in French.

,
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Last edited by Esperado; 20th October 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 20th October 2012, 07:39 PM   #28296
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What year did you see this concert?
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Old 20th October 2012, 07:40 PM   #28297
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Maybe you caught the Europe '72 tour?
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Old 20th October 2012, 08:13 PM   #28298
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Maybe you caught the Europe '72 tour?
I'm really sorry, John, i can't even remember the exact year of birth of my sun, imagine ?
And i believe i'm still 20 years old.
... This " Europe '72 tour" is talkative to me. One detail i remember, they had their own transatlantic airplane (not Jefferson:-), with the name of the group on it, at this time.
We where joking about the trail of smoke in the sky....

May i temper my critics, noting that this "Palais des sports" was the worse place you can imagine for a rock'n roll show, and my worse PA protestations where here too. So much endless echo and reverberation is this semi-spheric dome, build for sport, with all the structure vibrating under kick drum and bass low frequencies . A nightmare.

[Edit] more probably, 20 or 21/09/1974 ?
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Last edited by Esperado; 20th October 2012 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 20th October 2012, 09:15 PM   #28299
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My approach was much more convenient. First of all, drums. They are already loud without the rest of performers, so stage monitors are needed for singers to hear themselves. Amps for instruments, just loud enough to sound in balance with drums. Then of course low sensitivity dynamic mikes, for voices only. Stage monitors are equalized flat for mikes, to avoid feedback. Then mike drums, and balance everything according to them: instruments and voices. That's it. The sound goes from right and left sides from the stage, under my control. The sound on the stage is for performers only, it should not be heard by the public. For them I can add excess reverberation in stage monitors, they love to hear own voices such a way.
Main speakers are oriented toward 2 points: bottom speakers face middle of the first row, upper speakers face middle of the last row. I sit in the middle of the hall and know that what I hear is what the majority in the hall hears. I am free to tune balance, pan sources, adjust reverberation for each instrument, voice, according to needed "perceived distance", EQ voices of some singers if needed, and so on. And records made directly from stereo console output are of studio quality, but performers work much better when they have feedback from the public, unlike when they perform for walls in recording studio, and do that at once, without any hope for a second take.
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Old 20th October 2012, 09:49 PM   #28300
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The 74 Paris date used the 'Wall of Sound' system. I was there, and it should have looked like what I pictured. Unfortunately, I was not allowed into the main hall by the guards from back-stage for some reason, so I cannot absolutely verify the configuration. The GD were a JBL customer, and most of the components were JBL, but the cabinets were all custom. I was not there for Europe '72, so I don't know what they used. It was after Europe '72 that I was invited to measure and recommend improvements for what became the 'Wall of Sound' system.
I'm rather tired of debating this stuff with you, Esperado. Just remember, there are usually reasons for what people do, for better or worse, and your 'armchair' criticisms like Wavebourn's, do not really settle anything.
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