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Old 13th October 2012, 04:33 PM   #28161
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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As gk7 has said, in Europe it is same as polystyrene cap. Have hundreds of these caps.
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Old 13th October 2012, 04:45 PM   #28162
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Default COC

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post

The best plastic resin for audio caps would be COC (or COP), but no-one is doing that yet.
Is COC difficult to make as a film? I notice that one manufacturer notes that it is easy to metallize, at least.
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Old 13th October 2012, 04:57 PM   #28163
SY is offline SY  United States
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Not at all, it's actually a great film former. One of its virtues (besides superb dielectric properties and easy metallization) is high tensile strength and low elongation, so a cap can be wound really, really tight. Something like Topas 6013 (the film grade) would work great.

The issue is the capital cost of setting up a new biax film line for a low volume and diminishing market.
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Old 13th October 2012, 06:15 PM   #28164
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This appears to be 'quibbling' about caps. SY is technically right, but PMA is 'practically' right. Sometimes names may be 'incorrectly' put on a part, but we still know what they mean.
For example, I have many hundreds, even thousands of the same type cap (Siemens) that were pictured. We used to buy them from surplus outlets. However, I don't think they are made anymore. They are my choice for anything less than 0.02uF polystyrene. They are VERY delicate, both physically and chemically, but they sound GREAT!
However, I also have many hundreds of MIAL caps. They LOOK better, but they suffer exactly what Richard Marsh talked about. They virtually SING when bonked.
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Old 14th October 2012, 01:57 PM   #28165
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I'm glad that we had one of the first 'informative' discussions about caps and their differences.

Last edited by john curl; 14th October 2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 14th October 2012, 02:33 PM   #28166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
but they sound GREAT!.
Did-you use them like a musical instrument ?
Did electrons prefer funk or country music ?
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Old 14th October 2012, 02:35 PM   #28167
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No, Rel Caps are not good for guitar amps, necessarily. More DA is better for guitar amps I'm pretty sure.
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Old 15th October 2012, 12:58 AM   #28168
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I use a full Relcap film and foil crossover in my speaker. Polystyrene only with the tweeters, and the PPFXS tin film and foil for the midrange with MIT RTX 0.33/600v polystryrene and 0.01 bypasses on each cap. They are selected with a calibrated meter and matched to less than 1% when parralled of the total uf value required and between channels. It's expensive, takes a lot of room to hold them mechanically correctly, yet in a good system ( full range electrostatics, Blowtorch clone, Borbely all fet power amp) are indispensible in getting the highest resolution.

Richard's work in bringing these capacitors to the audio market place (for which he now gets no royalties) are as important as the best electronics designs are . Too bad krglee you haven't heard them, yet criticize my evaluation of them based on your beliefs rather than experience. For 20 years now I have heard them, often replacing Solen metalized films, and judge them as an indispensable part of a reference system. Yes there are other well regarded caps Vcap , Mundorf's, what ever the current Inficap series are, which are preferred by others.... Like good wine or whiskey not everyone's first choice is the same, but Relcaps/Multicaps have for 2 decades of electronics evolution in my system allowed improvements or disappointments to be more readily heard better than any other cap I've used (and I haven't heard or evaluated them all). They are consistently top notch performers especially in crossovers
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Old 15th October 2012, 01:01 AM   #28169
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Well stated, ticknpop. Your experience parallels mine to a significant degree.
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Old 15th October 2012, 01:32 AM   #28170
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Default More on caps - history

FYI -- many cap makers to the audiophile have taken what they could from RELiable Cap designs (like different foil materials) but one they have never duplicated is the multi sectioned/parallel cap feature. The reason is two fold -- it was patented and it required a custom built ($$$) cap making machine.

The result is extreamly low Ls and esr. The result being that self-resonance freq is pushed higher. This wasnt really for audio but had wider appeal. I think one can appreciate that there are many cap companies with many engineers over many years (100+) trying to make a better cap. in order to get a patent is thus very hard now as every possible cap idea has been patented or tried. This concept came about when I was working on very high voltage (100KV) discharge capacitor banks which needed low series L for fast energy transfer to the experiment (physics exper). The name "MultiCap" came from Bruce Brisson of MIT (cables) and he owns the trade name which is licensed exclusively to REL. Bruce paid me to get the concepts developed to become realized and marketable to audio. Moving on, I have no further interests nor royalty income from the patent as it has now expired. But because the special cap making machine has never been duplicated by others, it is still a unique part and with all the material science and manufacturing know-how that REL has, the combo has been a large step forward in film cap development.
---RNM

Last edited by RNMarsh; 15th October 2012 at 01:43 AM.
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