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Old 30th September 2012, 01:18 AM   #27911
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Can I get a HELL YEAH !
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Old 30th September 2012, 01:41 AM   #27912
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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I must come from the wrong side of the universe, I've never got what this rumbling bass thing is all about. Every time I've heard a system that obviously is set up to extract impressive bass it's so incredibly lopsided in sound that to me it's totally pointless: the rest of the spectrum beyond the bottom few octaves is subjectively like a tiny midget, the overall effect has absolutely nothing to do with what real sound is like.

For 25 years I've never bothered particularly about the bass side of things, and on hearing other systems I never feel I've missed out on anything ...

Frank
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Old 30th September 2012, 01:55 AM   #27913
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
I must come from the wrong side of the universe, I've never got what this rumbling bass thing is all about. Every time I've heard a system that obviously is set up to extract impressive bass it's so incredibly lopsided in sound that to me it's totally pointless: the rest of the spectrum beyond the bottom few octaves is subjectively like a tiny midget, the overall effect has absolutely nothing to do with what real sound is like.

For 25 years I've never bothered particularly about the bass side of things, and on hearing other systems I never feel I've missed out on anything ...

Frank
I'd advise then against acquiring "Beats by Dr. Dre" headphones , about which one person said made him feel that, although sitting with the band, he was positioned inside the bass drum.

In low-cost powered speaker land, a territory I don't much miss, it was said that the first thing that people noticed when auditioning such things was the bass. After that they might notice the highs, and after a while possibly how uncolored the midrange was. I think my own weighting was almost the reverse of that, and one of the early developments was to get the midrange right. We used to joke that we anticipated that knockoffs would simply copy the particular network and incorporate it, regardless of how well it compensated for the driver/enclosure response.

But oddly, I don't think it ever happened, at least not for a long time. The competition from overseas went for app note pasteup designs, and for something to differentiate, more features and controls. Now seemingly, everything has to be wireless. What a waste.
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Old 30th September 2012, 05:17 AM   #27914
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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I am more of a perfectionist when it comes to high-end -- if it is on the recording, i want to get it off and hear it. The musician put it there to hear as part of the music. Cutting the top end off isnt any better than cutting the bottom off. BUT, I can like the music in my car system or iPOD thingy (which I have several) without all the tones played back/heard.... but those arent high-end systems either.
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Old 30th September 2012, 06:29 AM   #27915
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
I must admit that Wavebourn has a better subwolfer than I have. My problem is that I live in an apartment, and I have neighbors. There is no way that I can generate 'gut pushing' bass, and still remain a tenant, so it is a moot point.
I am thinking about putting a pair of at least 15" drivers in the sub, but don't know when I will stop procrastinating... The space under the floor is so tight. First, I have to remove the panel with pair of 12" drivers molded in concrete. Then I need to fit there another panel, with 15" drivers, under sharper angle. Then fix it there. Lots of work. If I made it today, I would make longer waveguide than I made 5 years ago.
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Old 30th September 2012, 06:34 AM   #27916
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
I must come from the wrong side of the universe, I've never got what this rumbling bass thing is all about. Every time I've heard a system that obviously is set up to extract impressive bass it's so incredibly lopsided in sound that to me it's totally pointless: the rest of the spectrum beyond the bottom few octaves is subjectively like a tiny midget, the overall effect has absolutely nothing to do with what real sound is like.

For 25 years I've never bothered particularly about the bass side of things, and on hearing other systems I never feel I've missed out on anything ...
Frank, when bass reproduction is right you feel it by your part of the body under your belly, but it does not sound loud. If it sounds loud that most probably means you hear distortions instead of fundamental.
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Old 30th September 2012, 01:55 PM   #27917
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Frank, when bass reproduction is right you feel it by your part of the body under your belly, but it does not sound loud. If it sounds loud that most probably means you hear distortions instead of fundamental.
My quibble is that there is almost nothing on most albums that is part of the musical score, which has a fundamental frequency below 50Hz. Look at Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network, only the pipe organ and piano really venture into that territory, and how many times in an hour of music are notes in that part of the stave called for? Yes, there is sub-bass, a good term BTW, but that is an aspect of the recording hall ambience, rumblings of the combination of earth and space, important for conveying the sense of that space for some, but not intrinsic to the music as written down. So, to me, a reasonable speaker that can go comfortably and near flat to 50Hz theoretically should do the job 99% of the time ...

Yes, there are "silly" synthesizer tracks that have frequencies at 10Hz and suchlike, but I 'm talking about "normal" music here ...

Frank
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Old 30th September 2012, 02:01 PM   #27918
SY is offline SY  United States
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When you have REAL bass extension (not whomped up hifi intended for 1812 cannons), you mostly notice the difference in things like footsteps, chairs moving, the mechanics of piano pedals, the sound of a guitarist's fingers tapping the soundboard, and so forth.

It may be my imagination, but I think there's also an improvement in the "articulation" of notes.
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Old 30th September 2012, 02:18 PM   #27919
PHEONIX is offline PHEONIX  Australia
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Hello FAS42

If you had a speaker that was flat to say 30 Hz, and you played some music that did not have content below 50 Hz , and you compared it to a system that was flat to 50Hz all things being equal there would no difference in the sound.

Regards
Arthur
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Old 30th September 2012, 04:22 PM   #27920
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
My quibble is that there is almost nothing on most albums that is part of the musical score, which has a fundamental frequency below 50Hz. Look at Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network, only the pipe organ and piano really venture into that territory, and how many times in an hour of music are notes in that part of the stave called for? Yes, there is sub-bass, a good term BTW, but that is an aspect of the recording hall ambience, rumblings of the combination of earth and space, important for conveying the sense of that space for some, but not intrinsic to the music as written down. So, to me, a reasonable speaker that can go comfortably and near flat to 50Hz theoretically should do the job 99% of the time ...

Yes, there are "silly" synthesizer tracks that have frequencies at 10Hz and suchlike, but I 'm talking about "normal" music here ...

Frank
Such frequencies are rare and had been difficult to record, let alone reproduce. I had the pleasure of hearing the Strauss at Disney and the pedal C (doubled as well an octave higher) reproduced in a real and very good space, and overall the balance of the organ and orchestra throughout was good, and not exploited as a gimmick or effect.

There is a CD that has this energy recorded as well, but it is artificially boosted and sounds pretty ridiculous compared to the marking of piano in the score. I heard that on a system with multiple powered low-distortion subwoofers, and the desire to stand in a doorway during the earthquake was palpable.
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