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Old 21st September 2012, 06:39 PM   #27821
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Some recording and mastering engineers run a mix one pass through a tape recorder, as a kind of "glue" to hold the parts together. It's an "effect" of course, but a good one, and one not yet available digitally.

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Old 21st September 2012, 08:02 PM   #27822
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
Some recording and mastering engineers run a mix one pass through a tape recorder, as a kind of "glue" to hold the parts together. It's an "effect" of course, but a good one, and one not yet available digitally.

Thanks,
Chris
I've speculated that there may be some sort of nonlinear filtering that we don't understand that affects LPs made from digital masters, as there are cases where, despite the obvious vinyl issues, the result somehow sounds more appealing that the direct digital playback.
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Old 21st September 2012, 08:12 PM   #27823
morinix is offline morinix  United States
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
People seem to forget that we once had REAL recording engineers, who knew the musical score and changed the gain when anticipating too much level for the recording. Also, really quality analog recording is VERY forgiving as to overdrive, above 0Vu, better than most any other way of gentle overload, in lieu of better intrinsic dynamic range or S/N.
A real recording engineer! Yes, like Bruce Swedien who can read music scores. His career spans the RCA golden age through the halcyon Michael Jackson recordings. Just read an interview of him in Tape Op Magazine.
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Old 21st September 2012, 08:32 PM   #27824
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There was that time when we all learned to overlook the simple hiss of tape and the scratches of a vinyl album, but nobody could get past the sound of a recording when the saturation was just to much or the RIAA curve was a mess on bass notes, I would rather have a little tape noise than have to listen when an engineer had to ride the controls and keep the levels on the edge. Same goes for the modern compression levels on CD and pushing the upper limits as far as they can go and removing dynamic range, what is wrong with a soft passage? Give me a great recording and I might just overlook a little higher noise floor..... Just my opinion on that, nothing scientific.
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Old 21st September 2012, 08:46 PM   #27825
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It wasn't so bad, Kindhornman, IF the gain riding was minimal. Think about the heavily compressed recordings of today!
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Old 21st September 2012, 09:57 PM   #27826
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
People seem to forget that we once had REAL recording engineers, who knew the musical score and changed the gain when anticipating too much level for the recording
With classic music recordings, the term tonmeister is frequently -if not always- met.
It was and still is a post graduate degree (full classical musical training, theoretical knowledge of all technical aspects of sound, plus extensive practical experience).
While recording engineer can be a technical specialist.
For a tonmeister , reducing the gain during recording –at least more than 1-2 db I guess is not an acceptable practice. He is at least expected to know the dynamics of each part of the score with all the musical instruments involved plus the intentions of the conductor and having arranged for a generous gain headroom during the rehearsals.

If you want to have a look on the completeness of a tonmeister knowledge, you can have a look at this book (Fritz Winckel)

Music,Sound and Sensation: A Modern Exposition: Fritz Winckel: 9780486217642: Amazon.com: Books


George
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Old 21st September 2012, 10:27 PM   #27827
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John,
I think we are both saying the same thing. Modern CD recordings are most often without any differences between the levels no matter what the material is. The dynamic range is completely compressed to get the maximum level possible even on a soft passage.
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:38 PM   #27828
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Modern CD recordings are most often without any differences between the levels no matter what the material is. The dynamic range is completely compressed to get the maximum level possible even on a soft passage.
Take out the word "CD." This is true in general of most modern recordings irrespective of format. I've seen the audiophile press give rave reviews for horribly compressed material, rhapsodizing about the "detail."

Sic transit gloria audio.
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:43 PM   #27829
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:44 PM   #27830
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
In my opinion, higher speed, more bits will do the same thing, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.
So a $100 SACD player, MIGHT not sound as good as a $1000 CD only player, because they are NOT made to the same standard. This is normal and obvious. That is why we seem to be talking about apples vs oranges when in comes to digital listening comparisons.
But, the good thing with digital is that you can "cheat", and it works! As I mentioned earlier you can convert "poor cousin" CD material to higher resolution, SACD, using software algorithms and you then gain the benefit of "higher speed, more bits".

So how can that be? Because, all the information you need for "higher" resolution is already encoded in the CD track, no magic is happening. But flawed, or insufficiently sorted out playback of CD lets the side down ...

On a side note, I don't have analogue at all. But a friend has both, and he's done a nice job of tweaking the TT. And it sounds very impressive working at optimum. But, it's now good enough to be able to clearly hear tracking angle error effects, absolutely pristine sound is only available at two radii. In the end, this would drive me mad, having a playback where the quality goes up and down in a very predictable way through the recording; for me, far preferable to have a consistency of SQ all the way through ...

Frank
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