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Old 20th September 2012, 09:54 PM   #27761
morinix is offline morinix  United States
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I have heard a really high end CD source only once. It was an eye opener! - even without the BEST mastered CD or the best amp/speaker. I can project from that that it would be possible to get CD to be very very close to SACD. AND Sam Sham is on CD!
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:17 PM   #27762
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Fair enough, but 'very close' to me is like the difference between DVD video and Blue Ray, visually.
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:25 PM   #27763
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For the record, I have a fair number of CD's. Some sound pretty darn good, BUT I still hear what is 'lacking'. I have purchased a number of CD's just for the music content, just like the rest of you. But they are NOT my test sources, they are too compromised.
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:33 PM   #27764
SY is offline SY  United States
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Maybe it's just me, but BluRay looks really weird to me, different than DVD but in no way better. Tang versus orange juice. The players and discs are inexpensive these days, but I can't justify them.

No, I haven't done a controlled test.
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:35 PM   #27765
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Well the Blue Ray machine that I have here, Blue Ray is REALLY GOOD, shockingly good. Yet the best DVD's that I have, and I have many, are just OK.
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Old 20th September 2012, 11:11 PM   #27766
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
For the record, I have a fair number of CD's. Some sound pretty darn good, BUT I still hear what is 'lacking'. I have purchased a number of CD's just for the music content, just like the rest of you. But they are NOT my test sources, they are too compromised.
I'm going to strongly dispute this: as SY points out, a lot of SACD's "superiority" is due to the tracks being cooked during mastering, the engineers have been caught out quite a few times ... . Of course, the head honchos have said, ya gotta make sure the SACD sounds better, no matter what!

I've actually done some examinations of SACD material, and compared it to the CD version. And there is no difference, that can ever be audible, that is: the difference file is well over 90dB down, or it's true ultra-sonic material that has been captured by the mics. One thing too, SACD is very noisy at the ultra-sonic frequencies - there is pure random noise continuously through the track, nervous Nelly is taking a walk ...

I've done the exercise of taking a high quality SACD track, down-sampling to CD standards, then up-sampling the CD 2nd generation back up to SACD, the 3rd generation. And there is no audibly significant losses. Plus, I noted the comments of a number of audiophiles who sampled the results of the same exercise performed by a recognised, SACD mastering professional: they could not differentiate, in a blind test situation.

So what's going on? My belief, very strong belief, is that the actual moment of playback is when the damage is done: SACD by the very nature of how the electronics do their job are less prone to polluting their nest-- add unpleasant distortion -- than CD playback. On a level playing field there won't be audible differences ...

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Old 20th September 2012, 11:18 PM   #27767
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Maybe it's just me, but BluRay looks really weird to me, different than DVD but in no way better. Tang versus orange juice. The players and discs are inexpensive these days, but I can't justify them.

No, I haven't done a controlled test.
Get hold of the BluRay version of "Baraka", and watch on a decent screen. This will show you what's possible; in particular, check out scenes with huge numbers of people ...

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Old 20th September 2012, 11:47 PM   #27768
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Originally Posted by SY
Of course, it may not (probably isn't) the format difference you're comparing, but rather what the mastering engineers decided to lay down.
With Hybrid SACD discs and it's easy to do a comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY
Maybe it's just me, but BluRay looks really weird to me, different than DVD but in no way better. Tang versus orange juice. The players and discs are inexpensive these days, but I can't justify them.

No, I haven't done a controlled test.
Maybe you should do a blind test?

In my opinion, Bluray looks much better than DVD. It's not hard to tell the difference at all. It should look better, cause Apple has this thing called a "retina" display and to my knowledge the Bluray doesn't approach that.
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Old 20th September 2012, 11:50 PM   #27769
morinix is offline morinix  United States
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Fair enough, but 'very close' to me is like the difference between DVD video and Blue Ray, visually.
I am being careful when I say "very close". All I know is every time I mod my two DACs I reach higher levels of resolution. I listened to a dedicated transport at Harman Consumer that was built like a tank, and that unit with a Madrigal Proceed DAP was at a level that could slay the SACD giant. HOWEVER! I have never listened to a cost is no object SACD player.
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Old 21st September 2012, 12:12 AM   #27770
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With Hybrid SACD discs and it's easy to do a comparison.
The SACD and CD layers of many hybrid discs have been shown to be mastered differently.

I agree the difference between a new movie in BR vs DVD is very large. It's not "audio large" either. I can tell the difference right away using the movie Sunshine, for example, from 8 feet away with a 30" 2560x1600 LCD.

Last edited by chris719; 21st September 2012 at 12:14 AM.
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