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Old 11th September 2012, 05:03 PM   #27541
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In any case, I will just go with what works, knowing that a null test will not give me any useful information.
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Old 11th September 2012, 05:47 PM   #27542
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnloudb View Post
Any double blind test that fails to take into consideration how our auditory system works, really says nothing all, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
As far as I'm aware, your auditory system is left intact when you just can't see the box of gain.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:03 PM   #27543
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As far as I'm aware, your auditory system is left intact when you just can't see the box of gain.
Then you haven't learned anything.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:21 PM   #27544
SY is offline SY  United States
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Well, I've participated in auditory DBTs and frankly, I don't remember the part where my eardrums were punctured or I was forced to listen to techno. I just listened to music, diddled the volume control, and switched back and forth at my leisure. Then I made a choice and went on with my life.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:23 PM   #27545
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Sy,

First, the blind tests I've read about don't use equipment or sounds systems the person is familiar with. Also, you change the conditions and you change how you respond a sound. The tests I read about, do not give a person experience or practice with blind testing, which is a new experience. Habituation takes time.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:28 PM   #27546
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Johnloudb View Post

First, the blind tests I've read about don't use equipment or sounds systems the person is familiar with.
You need to do more reading.

FWIW, the last two tests I participated in as a subject, one was with my own system, the other was with a digital source and top-of-the-line Stax headphones. I wasn't super-familiar with that latter setup, but was quite content that what I was hearing, I was hearing. Several more were described in detail in my Linear Audio article.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:36 PM   #27547
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by Johnloudb View Post
Sy,

First, the blind tests I've read about don't use equipment or sounds systems the person is familiar with. Also, you change the conditions and you change how you respond a sound. The tests I read about, do not give a person experience or practice with blind testing, which is a new experience. Habituation takes time.
Harman has their listening panelists undergo extensive training, and it makes a huge difference in the repeatability of the results. The listeners are also tested for standard hearing acuity. Interestingly, professional audio reviewers often have abnormal hearing, i.e., deficiencies, and the scatter in their results is often quite high --- but they also usually forgo the training.

Perhaps it's out of fear of the electric shocks if they don't pick the Harman products.

That was a joke btw.
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Old 11th September 2012, 06:40 PM   #27548
coluke is offline coluke  Italy
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You need to do more reading.
Yeah - have a look at Tom Nouisane's site, for example

L.
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Old 11th September 2012, 07:44 PM   #27549
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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So in the end it is sufficient to be quite content with ....... (SCR)

Im sorry but that is a contradictio in ratio; if it would matter what participants _think_ about their ability we would not need to do any controlled listening test at all.

If a test has a positive result (aka null hypothesis could be rejected) but no negative control was used, nobody knows if the result was given due to an audible difference

If a test has a negative result (aka null hypothesis could not be rejected) it does not help that the listener was content about his hearing, nobody knows if the result was given due to the fact that he could not hear a difference under test conditions.

BTW, Sy what about the suspension of high standards in the Fremer case?
Any arguments?
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Old 11th September 2012, 08:04 PM   #27550
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Since we beat the Fremer deal to death months ago, why do you want to beat it around more? Is it total ignorance of statistics? Or an insistence on accepting post hoc reframing when it suits your desires? Or a desire to accept poorly controlled results when that suits your desires?

People can either hear these things with ears-only or they can't. No-one claiming "magic" differences has offered up any reliable evidence. Period. Trying to kick up unrelated dust to confuse the issue doesn't change it, nor does constant moving of the goal posts.
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