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Old 11th August 2012, 12:23 AM   #25991
godfrey is offline godfrey  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
I thought it was well-established (by experiment) that the ear is almost entirely insensitive to waveform shape, which is exactly what the filter-bank model of the ear would predict.
My understanding is that the ear adds a significant amount of non-linear distortion to the sound before it reaches the "filter-bank". In that case sensitivity to waveform would be expected.

In any event, I thought it was well established that some people, under certain conditions, can hear a change in absolute polarity?
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Old 11th August 2012, 01:37 AM   #25992
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
This is where the big breakthrough in achieving highest quality audio replay can come about ... when a system truly comes together in every aspect, then all, I repeat, all, pop rock mixes have "great space and realism".
Glad you said that and not me. Whenever I say that really great systems reveal great stuff in what many consider "bad" recordings I get slammed for it.
You know, "Rubbish! Better systems just make bad recordings sound worse." Or words to that effect.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that all recordings can be revealed to contain hidden sonic gems, many do. Part of my fascination with really great systems is their ability to let you hear past the recording flaws and into the music. Not a lot of folks agree with that, it seems.
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Old 11th August 2012, 01:40 AM   #25993
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by Positron View Post
Hi Jan,

I have to respectfully disagree. There are many more parts than active devices, and their sonic contribution can easily over bear that of the active device. That and frequencies as low as 5khz can be "transmitted" from wires and parts to adjacent wires/parts, so layout is very important to keep channel to channel separation.

Cheers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
This is where the big breakthrough in achieving highest quality audio replay can come about ... when a system truly comes together in every aspect, then all, I repeat, all, pop rock mixes have "great space and realism". In fact, many such recordings become absolutely "huge", the level of detail and the intricate nature of their composition is fully revealed, and they are a marvel to behold ...

Frank
I recognize this. But, you need a good recording and unfortunately, most of them now days are compressed to hell. My son trained as a RE so he has some really interesting stories to tell on this subject (he's also a fine musician, so a good combo of art and technical expertise)
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Old 11th August 2012, 01:46 AM   #25994
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Default 2 to 1 dynamic range of MP3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai View Post
I recognize this. But, you need a good recording and unfortunately, most of them now days are compressed to hell. My son trained as a RE so he has some really interesting stories to tell on this subject (he's also a fine musician, so a good combo of art and technical expertise)
It appears that the compressed sound from MP3 is on the order of yielding up a dynamic range of only 2 to 1. Anyone know fer sure?
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Old 11th August 2012, 01:55 AM   #25995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Whenever I say that really great systems reveal great stuff in what many consider "bad" recordings I get slammed for it.
No slamming from me either Totally agree - having improved my DAC quite recently its funny how many more of my old CDs which had been gathering dust are back in service again. But there are some that show up the flaws in the recording technology - particularly ones which are DSD down conversions - they noticeably lack dynamics compared with most others. So those will be going back on the shelf!

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While I wouldn't go so far as to say that all recordings can be revealed to contain hidden sonic gems, many do.
Yes - on this I concur with you Pano and disagree with Frank. His claim that 'all recordings do' is actually only 'all recordings Frank has heard'.
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Old 11th August 2012, 02:24 AM   #25996
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
I would like to ask if there is a way to derive the Gedlee Metric of the DUT from the FFT (amplitude and phase of the harmonics) of the output (OK at some different signal levels too)?

http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/THD_.pdf

George
Thank you for putting it here at this time. It certainly needs to be done asap. Its been way, way too long in coming. The data on many FFT can be found in a list of the actual measured values that are plotted. If this data was in a spread sheet, it would be just as easy to add the weighting and replot the data. Then we will have something better to correlate and make refinements to it and we are on our way to more meaningful tests/measurements.

Any takers to work on this project?? maybe Audio Precision? -RNM

Last edited by RNMarsh; 11th August 2012 at 02:25 AM. Reason: More meaningful measurements --
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Old 11th August 2012, 02:29 AM   #25997
SY is offline SY  United States
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Earl has published a great deal of data on applications of the metric. What new thing are you looking for?
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Old 11th August 2012, 02:34 AM   #25998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Glad you said that and not me. Whenever I say that really great systems reveal great stuff in what many consider "bad" recordings I get slammed for it.
You know, "Rubbish! Better systems just make bad recordings sound worse." Or words to that effect.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that all recordings can be revealed to contain hidden sonic gems, many do. Part of my fascination with really great systems is their ability to let you hear past the recording flaws and into the music. Not a lot of folks agree with that, it seems.
It is true. Except some rare cases when highs and lows were boosted in order to overcome limitations of speakers used during mastering. But the original question was about whether better system can make artificial records to sound as real, or not.
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Old 11th August 2012, 02:38 AM   #25999
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Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
Any takers to work on this project??
Last time I looked at one of his papers, Earl had confined himself to static distortions only. Has he extended that in the past couple of years? If not I suggest its probably only of marginal utility.
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Old 11th August 2012, 03:10 AM   #26000
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
But the original question was about whether better system can make artificial records to sound as real, or not.
What do you define as "artificial" records? Is it the recording technique or the sources themselves?
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