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Old 19th April 2012, 03:50 PM   #22471
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Originally Posted by imminentdomain View Post
Human brains are too advanced to process sound solely on the basis of one sound being minutely different from another. Human brains can detect minute differences, but largely only differences that are meaningful to humans. That's not all, humans are also capable of selective attention, meaning we can focus on parts of sound. Think about that, what does the mind's perceived response look like? First of all, it's not flat, second, it's constantly changing. If you listen to a string of notes being played your focus follows the notes through the frequency range. So you're not only focusing on one aspect of the sound, you're following it throughout the frequency range and pushing down the frequencies around it as you do so. Finally, there's emotion, chemical responses to music/sound that are going to literally alter my hearing sensitivity, or cause me to zone into one facet of the sound with microscope like focus. Imagine yourself alone in the forest and you thought you heard a bear, vs. alone in your apartment and you thought you heard the fridge compressor humming. Situational focus is HUGE for human perception. It all adds up to a complex experience that is probably impossible to measure, changes from listen to listen, from listener to listener, and is probably best described as intangible, though very, very real.
Excellent post. Thank you.

jan
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:51 PM   #22472
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I don't need another reason not to cook on aluminum.


The link between aluminum and alzheimers ended up being "re-considered" then abandoned when it was discovered that someone did some heavy ductwork modification/repair at the lab where the initial work was performed. Turned out someone was grinding aluminum, and it routed through the HVAC ductwork and contaminated the alzheimers samples.

Needless to say, I now have to blame some other vector...

j
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:52 PM   #22473
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Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
[snip]Being human involves imperfect senses and logic, so being fooled or making mistakes is just part of existence.[snip]ES
Hi Ed,

I just want to point out that even with perfect senses and perfect logic we would still have the perception issues we have today.

jan
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:55 PM   #22474
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Originally Posted by jneutron View Post


The link between aluminum and alzheimers ended up being "re-considered" then abandoned when it was discovered that someone did some heavy ductwork modification/repair at the lab where the initial work was performed. Turned out someone was grinding aluminum, and it routed through the HVAC ductwork and contaminated the alzheimers samples.

Needless to say, I now have to blame some other vector...

j
I am in the city that had the largest aluminum manufacturing and research facility around. Original work into superconductors was being done in this facility. IIRC, 3000 research personal at the peak, all on and about aluminum research (Alcan research).

Point being, that Alzheimers levels are....highest in this area.... and highest among the retired factory floor workers.
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:55 PM   #22475
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
So, what's the problem? Do you have anything regarding particular case except empty statements about how good are good scientists, and how bad are audiophiles? Why you instead of examining statement, looking at the construct, continue attacking messengers using empty common phrases?
Again, if you wish to discuss, please do so instead of this continued attack.

I have not attacked you. I pointed out that the flagrant dismissal of a subset of humans as arrogant because they are scientists will not be tolerated. Please leave the conspiracy thinking somewhere else.

Now, another lie of yours...please point out where I stated audiophiles are bad.

j
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:57 PM   #22476
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Originally Posted by janneman View Post

I just want to point out that even with perfect senses and perfect logic we would still have the perception issues we have today.
Sure. And no matter how do we call ourselves, either scientists or audiophiles, any data that challenges our beliefs would cause reactions as if the life had been threatened.
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:57 PM   #22477
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Ken, you never fail to entertain.
Always glad to provide, Sy.
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Old 19th April 2012, 03:59 PM   #22478
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Originally Posted by KBK View Post
I am in the city that had the largest aluminum manufacturing and research facility around. Original work into superconductors was being done in this facility. IIRC, 3000 research personal at the peak, all on and about aluminum research (Alcan research).

Point being, that Alzheimers levels are....highest in this area.... and highest among the retired factory floor workers.
Please point to any study performed which shows this assertion to be true. Published, peer reviewed studies.

No anecdotal evidence will suffice. New England Journal of Medicine, Lancet, whatever...

Conspiracy websites also need not apply, don't bother with links to those..

j
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Old 19th April 2012, 04:02 PM   #22479
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Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
Again, if you wish to discuss, please do so instead of this continued attack.
Referring to the data that chalenges beliefs indeed may be perceived as an attack. My point was to show you your own reactions to demonstrat that if somebody is scientist it does not mean that he/she is free from such reactions, and the fact that somebody is scientist can not be used as proof that he/she is right speakng about perception of sounds.
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Old 19th April 2012, 04:09 PM   #22480
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
The only way that I know how to 'prove' if I am on the right track is to have people that I do not know, to like it, and even admire the effort, especially when whatever I have made has not been marketed in any way, except to hope that people will try it.
The idea that there is, or was, advanced marketing behind the Vendetta Research SCP-2, for example, is nonsense. It was successful (for the most part) because I tried everything that I could think of, to make it as 'perfect' as possible. I still made mistakes, and these 'oversights' were reflected in the A,B,C, and D mods that came out, over the years as I came to realize their sonic importance.
the vendetta was always desirable, right from the beginning. word got out, quick.

the way it went is that people shared the point of it being 'spectacular', as if the information was valuable, like people jostling for a chance to get into a line up. People were almost reluctant to share the information on how good it was, to be sure that they might have a chance at getting one, some day.

This is the sort of thing that happens around the best products. specifically among the crowd that goes for a no-nonsense correctness in the sonic presentation, over that of any 'immature' glossiness or 'shine' to the sonic presentation. The subset of audiophiles who go for naturalness in sound is much smaller in numbers than the glitz crowd, the glitz crowd being of a neophyte nature, in most cases. The audiophiles that went for the vendetta were of a nature that was fanatical about music over that of equipment, which is a key difference over that of the neophyte, who were possibly musically inclined .....but still oriented around the equipment.

Only if one is lucky (as a producer of said gear), does a music oriented piece of consumer equipment actually make it to superstar status in sales figures. This usually happens due to the thing gaining reputation and then the neophytes getting a hold of it, psychologically (idealization), as a 'covetous' item and thus driving up the sales and the pricing.

Sometimes this helps them become true music fanatics, but, usually... they simply flip (audiogon and ebay gear flippers) it after a few months, and move back into mediocrity.
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