John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 2240 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th April 2012, 07:41 PM   #22391
diyAudio Member
 
jneutron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: away
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Well, I have worked with a few physicists and engineers too, over the decades. So what?
I repeat...mischaracterization of all or even most scientists is unacceptable..

That should be a simple concept to grasp.

j
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 07:41 PM   #22392
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Law enforcement rarely relies on actual science.
Should audio be judged in court of justice, only scientific evidence will be accounted for.
Listening to music may be different from court of justice
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 07:48 PM   #22393
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Should audio be judged in court of justice, only scientific evidence will be accounted for.
Listening to music may be different from court of justice
I think you missed my point entirely.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 07:50 PM   #22394
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wilds Of Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
I said nothing about audiophiles.

I said the characterization of scientists given was incorrect.

Nothing more....nothing less.


j
yes, John. apologies.

I was simply using that developed issue of mis-characterization to illustrate that we are up against a psychological realization issue -over that of science and proofing.

alchemy, Buddhism, etc... specifically make a point about changing the man in the situation. That the limit of logic and extrapolation, is the man, not the reality or the logic. The limit is always going to be the man. Physician... heal thyself.

This is relevant regarding the situation around where a human may hear vanishing low distortions in audio signals, or not.

Millions of audiophiles know what they hear. they are not connected to the idea of scientific methodology and all surrounding it, they are connected to what they hear. they speak honestly and truly about what they hear and can successfully relate and test for those results.

Then we get to the idea of the 'bulk' of current 'applied to audio' scientific methodology finding fault..... with what the audiophiles so plainly hear.

(place giant seemingly never ending debate here)

In the final analysis, the man attempting the science must change, for a barrier in psychology has been reached, not one of reality, or science.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:06 PM   #22395
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Well said, KBK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:13 PM   #22396
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
I think you missed my point entirely.
Either that, or you have missed my point.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:32 PM   #22397
diyAudio Member
 
jneutron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: away
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBK View Post
snip...Then we get to the idea of the 'bulk' of current 'applied to audio' scientific methodology finding fault..... with what the audiophiles so plainly hear.

As one of science, the first question scientific reasoning requires is: ""Prove your assertions under conditions which remove expectation bias"".

Audiophiles seem incapable of providing such under controlled testing regimens.

However, also as one of science, I have examined the testing methodology used to date and find it lacking rigor. Confounders which are not understood are simply ignored as a result. I therefore cannot consider lack of positive results as proof of no difference..

Do not mistake me. I do not consider everything as audible, just that the tests which indicate such may be flawed.

j

Last edited by jneutron; 18th April 2012 at 08:37 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:40 PM   #22398
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
Audiophiles seem incapable of providing such under controlled testing regimens.
I'm capable to prove to myself, maybe not to others.
I have no interest to prove anything to anyone other than myself.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:43 PM   #22399
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
Audiophiles seem incapable of providing such under controlled testing regimens.
The same generalisation, as about scientists, you were objecting against.

I've seen both audiophiles who honestly tried to find expalanions of what they hear so engineer can understand them, as well as scientists that denied everything that they can't explain using models they believe in.
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2012, 08:44 PM   #22400
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I have no interest to prove anything to anyone other than myself.
Then why do you feel it necessary to repeat this ad nauseum?

..... protests too much?

Last edited by cliffforrest; 18th April 2012 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spellng
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:57 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2