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Old 18th April 2012, 03:27 PM   #22361
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
it would be far more convincing if there were actual measurements showing these hypothesized "audible" magnetic component leads, endcaps, connector plating distortion (IM too) magnitude, spectrums...
Hypothetically speaking, most current low distortion measurement systems average large numbers of wavelets to reach towards low levels of measurements. This naturally makes them blind to certain phenomena and reducing the time window is not really helpful.

Systems that do not rely on this method are now extremely rare, even more so then when they where available if highly uncommon.

Ciao T
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Old 18th April 2012, 03:33 PM   #22362
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Good point, T.
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Old 18th April 2012, 03:50 PM   #22363
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Progress is made by putting hypotheses to the test and either running with them or abandoning them, depending on what good, rigorous experiments tell you.

Marketing to a hobby or fashion niche is a totally different matter. The story is important, evidence is not.
SY,

Just as it is in fashion to ask for rigorous scientific evidence. The local PBS station ran an interesting piece with among other tidbits a fellow who FOUR (3 FBI) fingerprint examiner's insisted was his fingerprint (No dissenting opinions) and only when the Spanish police arrested the right guy did he get released.

Seems that fingerprints in theory, once said to be unique to each individual, needs a revised theory! (One apparently based on real scientific method!)

ES
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:01 PM   #22364
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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please give references, example measurements of these "uncorrelated" errors

for hysteresis why would it not be highly retraceable, give conventional harmonic and IM components?

I'm happy to learn new stuff in signal theory, but my understanding is that signal correlated noise is "visible" to "continuous" measurements - change the signal level and the noise level changes, 2-tone test signals are "continuous" and can give large envelope modulation

due to early delta-sigma converter problems in this area it has been extensively tested for, improved in recent generation modulators, multi-bit delta sigma converters

unless the level is gross as in Dolby processing there is the additional question of audibility threshold when any “noise modulation” is well below other source, thermal, venue noise in a recording
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:03 PM   #22365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
SY,

Just as it is in fashion to ask for rigorous scientific evidence. The local PBS station ran an interesting piece with among other tidbits a fellow who FOUR (3 FBI) fingerprint examiner's insisted was his fingerprint (No dissenting opinions) and only when the Spanish police arrested the right guy did he get released.

Seems that fingerprints in theory, once said to be unique to each individual, needs a revised theory! (One apparently based on real scientific method!)

ES
This is utter nonsense Ed. It is well known that differences in fingerprints is a statistical issue. The chances that two fingerprints from different persons match to a specific degree are very small but not zero. Once in a while two DO match, with unfortunate consequences for the innocent person.

DNA differences are much more pronounced, but you can just wait for the case that an innocent guy/girl gets hanged because he /she was unfortunate enough to have the same DNA (within the bounds of detectability) as the real offender.
Another reason not to hang people.

jan
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:29 PM   #22366
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Law enforcement rarely relies on actual science. Polygraphy, dogs, fingerprints, and bite mark analysis (among other things) have been shown over and over- by actual scientists- to be badly flawed. And of course eyewitness testimony is far and away the most flawed. This does not stop lawyers.

Knowing this has kept me off jury duty.

Here's a list of the actual listening tests that confirmed audibility of magnetic leads in components:

.
.
.
.
(sound of crickets chirping)
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:48 PM   #22367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Law enforcement rarely relies on actual science. Polygraphy, dogs, fingerprints, and bite mark analysis (among other things) have been shown over and over- by actual scientists- to be badly flawed. And of course eyewitness testimony is far and away the most flawed. This does not stop lawyers.

Knowing this has kept me off jury duty.

Here's a list of the actual listening tests that confirmed audibility of magnetic leads in components:

.
.
.
.
(sound of crickets chirping)
You forgot the biggest fraud of all, forensic ballistics.
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:49 PM   #22368
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Here's a list of the actual listening tests that confirmed audibility of magnetic leads in components:

.
.
.
.
(sound of crickets chirping)
And?

Ciao T
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:50 PM   #22369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hags View Post
You forgot the biggest fraud of all, forensic ballistics.
That falls under my parenthetical.
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Old 18th April 2012, 04:52 PM   #22370
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Well SY, I can only offer what has worked for me. Actually, I did not specify magnetic leads as the most problematic. I mentioned magnetic CONNECTORS, a much larger bit of iron, in a concentrated area. Actually, I am told that COPPERWELD, which is a steel core with copper cladding, that is often used in military grade resistors, is OK, up to a point. That is why Jack Bybee used COPPERWELD wires on his cheapest grade of Bybee devices. However, for his more 'uptown' clients, he removed the COPPERWELD and added silver or gold alloy wires by laser welding. Still, all else being equal, less iron is best.
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