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Old 27th January 2012, 02:18 PM   #20011
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Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
Is this the one about "fuzzy distortion"? I took that to mean that carriers injected into the BJT's base come in integral quantities, so in effect "quantized" the input current in very small signal very high Beta situations. I'm not smart enough to say whether or not it's real, but it's certainly interesting. Any comments?

Thanks,
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Let me guess he sited virtually none of the vast amount of literature on the matter. Van der Ziel is required for starters.

For amusement - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_1/f_noise The section on the controversy sounds familiar
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:03 PM   #20012
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Nope that's the wrong way around. We observe patterns in the behaviour of nature and infer that there are rules - however the rules are an artifact of thinking. Nature just has habits which we observe. We use math to model those habits and our models evolve over time. Math no more governs reality than grammar governs what people write in a natural language.
I think this is consistant with what I've been trying to say, just not nearly as concisely as you've put it here. Well said.
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:20 PM   #20013
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H...?
Overhere, there's a saying that something tastes as if an angel is peeing on your tongue.
Clearly, Heineken hired someone else to do the honors.

(Evidently, there's a need for a stupiderest reference posting on this thread)
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:26 PM   #20014
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Let me guess he sited virtually none of the vast amount of literature on the matter.
Sorry I was wrong none at all, stunning nonsense here too. JN please point out the moments of brilliance.
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:36 PM   #20015
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck
Is this the one about "fuzzy distortion"?
Yes, I think that is what he called it. It had me fooled for a while, but then I started thinking about the consequences if it were true. As I said, partition noise at a circuit junction? For this reason, I now take everything he says with a big pinch of salt. I don't believe he sets out to confuse people, but I suspect his grasp of physics and maths is not as reliable as he believes. He also seems to enjoy playing the eccentric maverick, so criticism has little effect. Essex University always had a bit of a reputation for being radical, outside the mainstream.
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:39 PM   #20016
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Sorry I was wrong none at all, stunning nonsense here too. JN please point out the moments of brilliance.
You have me over a barrel here. Obviously I did not mean any of his wire work nor capacitor work.

I remember reading some of his papers, I think either digital or feedback or current drive , and remember coming away very impressed. For the topics, the papers seemed internally consistent, and didn't counter what knowledge I had previously understood. So in that respect, I did think the work very good, brilliant as a descriptor seemed to fit.

For papers such as the noise one being discussed here, I am not in a position to understand the ups and downs, needing to take a back seat to those well versed.

I would NOT like to think that all of his professional work fell apart like a cheap suit under scrutiny the way his early essex echo article does. But I'm afraid that I couldn't ascertain that for topics way over my head. I'll try to find one of the papers I was impressed with..

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Old 27th January 2012, 03:55 PM   #20017
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You have me over a barrel here. Obviously I did not mean any of his wire work nor capacitor work.

I remember reading some of his papers, I think either digital or feedback or current drive Cheers, jn
That's OK, I also found value when he stuck to circuits, etc. Back of the envelope, -100dB on a 1mV signal at midband from a MM cartridge is still around 10^7 electrons per second.

EDIT - It appears MH's argument collapses when you consider a JFET input .
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:11 PM   #20018
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
That's OK, I also found value when he stuck to circuits, etc. Back of the envelope, -100dB on a 1mV signal at midband from a MM cartridge is still around 10^7 electrons per second.

EDIT - It appears MH's argument collapses when you consider a JFET input.
The number sounds about right. But a second is a fairly long time in audio; at 10KHz that's 10^3 electrons per cycle, from the generator. How many get injected will vary with Beta, yada yada. Not an issue with field effect devices like electron valves or those new-fangled whatchacallits.

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Chris
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:25 PM   #20019
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Originally Posted by Chris Hornbeck View Post
The number sounds about right. But a second is a fairly long time in audio; at 10KHz that's 10^3 electrons per cycle, from the generator. How many get injected will vary with Beta, yada yada. Not an issue with field effect devices like electron valves or those new-fangled whatchacallits.

Thanks,
Chris
But this is only the signal which is added to the random thermal noise. I think I estimated the noise for a shorted 10 Ohm MC at about 4nA rms 20-20K this is a LOT of electrons. It is MHO that these arguments reduce to treating the electron solely as a particle which leads to wrong conclusions.
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Old 27th January 2012, 08:03 PM   #20020
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Ken, right on! I am always annoyed when I find that Ohm's law is sometimes violated, or that our galaxy needs dark matter to keep it together. I thought that my education in Newtonian laws, 50 years ago, were a darn good approximation of how the galaxies hung together. Oh well, so much for math! '-)
Well if MOND theory pans out we don't need the dark matter. Newton and Ohm work well enough for me.
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