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Old 18th January 2012, 03:02 PM   #19821
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Well, I'm glad that I am not 'forced' into doing double blind tests. I can just listen to what is in front of me, and decide. Works for me!
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Old 18th January 2012, 03:34 PM   #19822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzfish View Post
Some of the artists involved in the violin study have written about the experience.
Thanks for the links. Very good reading.
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Old 18th January 2012, 09:24 PM   #19823
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Fascinating read! Thanks for posting.

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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Thanks for the links. Very good reading.

My pleasure.

Dave
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Old 19th January 2012, 05:51 AM   #19824
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Thorsten. Please read this thread:
Pictures -- Why Not attach Them ??
Fix your images and post again. Thanks.
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Old 20th January 2012, 04:58 PM   #19825
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I have heard a lot of opinion on this and several similar threads. However, it does not follow what I have found in my personal and professional life experience.
First, violinists really can hear the differences in violin quality. Mostly, the old instruments do better, and because they have collector's value, like an old painting, they are VERY expensive and hold their value, like a Marantz 9 tube amp or a Vendetta SCP-2D.
I do believe that is what I heard when I heard a particular Strad played by a master violinist, back in 1975.
However, I had heard other Strads before at the institute where I worked, for example, Zino Francescatti, who was my wife's former master teacher, and we often had dinner together as well as to hear him play, yet while I appreciated his violin sound, I was NOT knocked over. Yet, when one year later, this relatively unknown (to me) violinist played his instrument, I was knocked over!
I attribute this to my innate capability to discern audio differences, developed in selecting classical guitars to own and play, in my past.
I would say that many here, might do better than me in tasting differences in and truly appreciating fine wine. I KNOW that many here put their extra money into that area.
I don't, BUT I also remember buying a bottle of fine wine, at 'The Grand Hotel' in Montreux, where we lived at the time, and the wine steward, being friendly, slipped us a misplaced bottle that had at least 6 times more value than we were normally paying for, and again, I was knocked over! So much that I took the bottle home and saved the label. Yet, I am and never was a true wine advocate, like some here. Still, I had my wine tasting experience, and will never forget it.
It is the same when I sample audio systems brought to Las Vegas, once a year. Sometimes, I am knocked over, sometimes, I am not. Yet, I don't need, once again, that I have to do a blind test to tell the difference.
There is a forceful movement to tell us all that everything essentially sounds the same, but it is not true, BUT we can be put into a double blind testing situation, that will give us NULL results. IF this taught us a lesson, then why doesn't everything sound the same, AFTER the test is over? But the differences reappear, and we are back to finding out WHY?

Last edited by john curl; 20th January 2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 20th January 2012, 05:19 PM   #19826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
There is a forceful movement to tell us all that everything essentially sounds the same, but it is not true
You're right, that's not true. There is no such movement and everything doesn't sound the same. Of course, not everything sounds different, either.
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Old 20th January 2012, 05:25 PM   #19827
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I find that virtually everything sounds different, and that is why I can discriminate between different designs and parts. Works for me, your opinion might vary.
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Old 20th January 2012, 05:41 PM   #19828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
I find that virtually everything sounds different
I am with you, John.
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Old 20th January 2012, 05:50 PM   #19829
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by SY View Post
There is no such movement
If there is no such movement, what are Krueger, Noisaine, Clark, Lipshitz et al constantly writing and whinging about?

Like for example in this article:

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/To%20Tweak%20or%20Not.pdf

Which incidentally is a masterpiece in demonstrating how to conduct scientific tests, including positive and negative controls, serious statistical evaluation of the results (e.g. confidence interval) and arranging tests in a manner that minimise "test stress" - Not.

Ciao T
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Old 20th January 2012, 05:53 PM   #19830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post

If there is no such movement, what are Krueger, Noisaine, Clark, Lipshitz et al constantly writing and whinging about?
I guess I missed the part about everything sounding virtually the same. Could you point out where any of the folks you name have actually said that?

In the popular magazine article you linked to, there is some detail on how the test accommodated listener preferences (the soi disant "test stress"). You may want to reread it.
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