John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 1851 - diyAudio
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Old 29th November 2011, 09:59 AM   #18501
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Don't any of these listening tests have immediate feedback?
Some do. No reason not to as long as controls aren't broken and scores can't be altered post facto. Of course, in many test formats (e.g., ABX), you can go back to any of the references as a "known" at any time.

I note that the lack of feedback didn't inhibit either of us in the Hawksford test...
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:31 AM   #18502
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I found this :
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Old 29th November 2011, 10:33 AM   #18503
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"Citation needed" says it all.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:24 AM   #18504
zinsula is offline zinsula  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joao@AltheaMusica View Post
Just want to mention that when doing tests do it as long term version. ......
That works best for me too.

Unfortunately, for development purposes, this is not an efficient way to evaluate designs and components, I'd need years with my limited spare time.
That's one main reason why I like to listen to those who have demonstrated over decades that they can and do build products which are successful in the marketplace, and which maintain also a high value in the second hand market.
Especially JC and CH who report differences of components and design solutions are more credible to me than all the "differences do not exist, it's all imagination" talk.
Why should these guys, in a sighted test, prefer say one resistor type over the other, when costing almost the same? Or dimiss one time a cheaper component, and in another evaluation a more expensive one? Perhaps even from the same manufacturer? Or prefer one inductor value over the other, same type, same price, just two different values?
This is hilarious. I'd really like to be able to listen to them without all this "you are deluded" talk.
And no, I do not need someone who protects me from their contributions or the financial consequences this may have for me when buying one brand of resistors over another.

I like customer protection activities when buying detergent, car polish or pet food though.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:35 AM   #18505
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by zinsula View Post
Why should these guys, in a sighted test, prefer say one resistor type over the other, when costing almost the same? Or dimiss one time a cheaper component, and in another evaluation a more expensive one? Perhaps even from the same manufacturer? Or prefer one inductor value over the other, same type, same price, just two different values?
You've answered your own question. They're working in a minuscule niche fashion market, and that's the stuff you do in those markets. If there's no mystery and straightforward engineering achieves exactly the same function, where's the room for gurus and designers?
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:26 PM   #18506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
Yes, I agree. The modern recordings of classical music are usually 'over technologized'. Anyway, there are some exceptions, captured with less mikes and from longer distance.

Last time I was thinking about this 2 weeks ago when I heard a small acoustical jazz combo (4 instruments) playing at the open space square (Hradcanske namesti) in front of the Prague castle. Such kind o natural, full and rich sound is never heard from any audio chain.
Indeed, there is no stereo set in the world, at any price, that can faithfully emulate a live concert of un-amplified acoustic instruments.

As for recent recordings of classical music, indeed there are some exceptions that stand out, above the average majority.
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:39 PM   #18507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinsula
I like customer protection activities when buying detergent, car polish or pet food though.
Me too!
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Old 29th November 2011, 01:14 PM   #18508
brianco is offline brianco  Ireland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,



As we are back to bring out that old ABX chestnut....................................

Ciao T

T:

As you know this came about [this lap] as a result of JC teasing Sy and his ABX posse. We all know which protagonists are certain to take their hobby-horses out for yet another long ride as they trot out every time there is a possibility for yet another amble along these well worn ABX tracks. We should all simply refuse to play simply because the hobby horse is now totally exhausted - despite the determination of the riders.

A more positive approach would be for two camps to be formed and each to here design a DIY preamp which is close to perfect [in their respective joint view]. The resulting preamp can then be tested - probably in about 14 years time - and then those who are left on this earth can make their minds up as to who wins! The winning sample could then be tested in all ways then possible against an original 'Blowtorch'

Fortunately I will never know the findings as I may well have lost interest in Audio [other than as a visual pastime]before reaching the grand old age of 84!!!.......But I can be sure that certain by then dim-eyed, deafer, more cranky old men will still be riding their skeletal hobby-horses....and as for the ghost-riders in the sky? Lets really mix the metaphor by saying that their appearance would put the cat among the pigeons.

Last edited by brianco; 29th November 2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 29th November 2011, 01:23 PM   #18509
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Dear Sy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
No, we weren't talking about ABX, but rather a different format.
I must beg forgiveness of my ignorance, I re-read and still came only up with references to work done by the ABX crowd.

As you know, I am greatly interested in formats other than ABX that address the criticisms rightly levelled at ABX and thus would allow a greater degree of confidence in the results.

Could you provide some references that illustrate how this new test method avoids the common pitfalls of ABX?

Ciao T
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Old 29th November 2011, 01:46 PM   #18510
SY is offline SY  United States
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It may be tedious to reread, but you may want to do so again. John and I were talking about a different format. Unfortunately, apparently any format which does not allow peeking and has significance is not allowed.
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