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Old 17th November 2011, 01:28 PM   #18021
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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you have done the obvious blind test of the original 96k source and 20 kHz low pass filtered version - still at 96k to determine if there is an audible difference introduced there?

looked at the fft of the digital anti-alias filtered output before decimation to see if any leakage frequency content that could fold down to bass exists?

Last edited by jcx; 17th November 2011 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 17th November 2011, 02:12 PM   #18022
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This i normal.
Pure 50Hz sine wave sounds like "bass" tone. 50Hz triangle, sawtooth or square sound like mid tone, for the reason of harmonic overtones.

The reason why CD sounds worse in the bass is the digital mess it adds to the original sound of the musical instruments. It would play pretty well single sine tone, but it would not play that well natural sound of musical instruments like double bass or cello. This difference of sound in the bass between analog and CD is pretty usual.
Come on now, CD's make sawtooths out of the bass notes? Your analogy involves 10's of percents of distortion.
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Old 17th November 2011, 02:36 PM   #18023
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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There may be something more than that going on, Scott.
When I was running thru a Berhinger DEQ2496 and DCX2496 I switched my media server output to 24 bit. Did it sound better? Yes, a little. But not at all what I expected, it sounded better in the bass. I still haven't figured that out, but it was consistent.

I highly doubt it's the format, but something going on in the electronics or software along the way. I had at first forced it to 96/24 but found that 44.1/24 had the same effect.
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Old 17th November 2011, 02:47 PM   #18024
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There may be something more than that going on, Scott.
When I was running thru a Berhinger DEQ2496 and DCX2496 I switched my media server output to 24 bit. Did it sound better? Yes, a little. But not at all what I expected, it sounded better in the bass. I still haven't figured that out, but it was consistent.

I highly doubt it's the format, but something going on in the electronics or software along the way. I had at first forced it to 96/24 but found that 44.1/24 had the same effect.
Pretty easy to diffmaker the results?
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Old 17th November 2011, 03:54 PM   #18025
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Actually, no. Once it goes back thru the A/D process I don't know that the difference will be obvious. And DiffMaker can be hard to use on files with different sample rates.
It's worth a try, of course. And maybe the signal could stay digital out of the DEQ and back into the computer.
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Old 17th November 2011, 03:56 PM   #18026
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
There may be something more than that going on, Scott.
When I was running thru a Berhinger DEQ2496 and DCX2496 I switched my media server output to 24 bit. Did it sound better? Yes, a little. But not at all what I expected, it sounded better in the bass. I still haven't figured that out, but it was consistent.

I highly doubt it's the format, but something going on in the electronics or software along the way. I had at first forced it to 96/24 but found that 44.1/24 had the same effect.
How did you increase the bit depth? Starting with 16 bits and zero filling is exactly what the spdif interface does all by itself. (Just hook a scope to the data stream synced to word clock and see for yourself.) Is your software adding the evil dither to make it sound better and give more bass?

If you switch to 24 bit content is it even the same recordings?
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Old 17th November 2011, 04:11 PM   #18027
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Come on now, CD's make sawtooths out of the bass notes? Your analogy involves 10's of percents of distortion.
The analogy is not very good, but any mid and high frequency mess affects perception of bass tones. The origin of the mess is not necessarily the common non-linear distortion.
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Last edited by PMA; 17th November 2011 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 17th November 2011, 04:14 PM   #18028
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you have done the obvious blind test of the original 96k source and 20 kHz low pass filtered version - still at 96k to determine if there is an audible difference introduced there?
Yes, I normally do switch tests - analog x 24/96, analog x 16/44.1 and 24/96 x 16/44.1
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Old 17th November 2011, 04:54 PM   #18029
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I think that a detailed look at the schematics of both the record and reproduce electronics for the digital system would be in order to evaluate the number of electrolytic or ceramic (gasp) coupling caps in series. A talk yesterday with a known modifier of electronics, as well as a digital recording engineer, gave me some insight to even the problems with the Korg 2000, which is a better product than most here use. It would appear to this engineer that it is the ANALOG part of the electronics that is the primary weakness. Digital seems to be working as expected. Perhaps that is a good part of the bass problem.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:14 PM   #18030
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How did you increase the bit depth?
My software player allows me to choice the output bit depth. Any volume or EQ it does is 32 or 64 bit float, then you choose the output format. Since at the time I was using digital volume control (about 10dB) I figured that a 24 bit output might be a better way to go than 16 bit - as the following electronics are all 24 bit anyway. Why cram it down into 64K levels when you have millions in 24 bit?

So the difference in SQ could have come anywhere along the path, the player software, the DEQ, the DCX. I don't think that 96/24 has inherently better bass, just that some software or hardware (or both) were happier along the way. That's the point. Nothing is perfect, I just happened to find a setting that worked better for me.
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