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Old 17th November 2011, 06:41 AM   #18011
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
When i make down sampled CDs from the master the main difference is in the bass. The master sounds a bit fuller, warmer and spacious.
This i normal.
Pure 50Hz sine wave sounds like "bass" tone. 50Hz triangle, sawtooth or square sound like mid tone, for the reason of harmonic overtones.

The reason why CD sounds worse in the bass is the digital mess it adds to the original sound of the musical instruments. It would play pretty well single sine tone, but it would not play that well natural sound of musical instruments like double bass or cello. This difference of sound in the bass between analog and CD is pretty usual.
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Old 17th November 2011, 08:10 AM   #18012
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If that is the explanation, PMA, thanks. I demonstrated that effect to several people that heard it too.
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Old 17th November 2011, 10:13 AM   #18013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Wasn't everything before the second war D2D? And everything before the first war D2D acoustic? No good performances recorded from 1878 to 1945?
One or two.

Enrico Caruso - Recondita armonia - YouTube
(1909, I think)

Rachmaninoff plays Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - YouTube
(~1930?)

Rachmaninoff plays Debussy Golliwogg's Cakewalk - YouTube

Willem Mengelberg conducts Mahler Symphony 4; part 1 of 6 - YouTube
(1939)

File:Enrico Caruso, Recondita armonia (Tosca).ogg - Wikimedia Commons
(1909 - some noise reduction)

JUSSI BJRLING 1936 - RECONDITA ARMONIA - PUCCINI - YouTube (1936)

Leonard Warren "Prologue" I Pagliacci - YouTube (1940)

Gershwin plays Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue - YouTube
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Old 17th November 2011, 10:31 AM   #18014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I got to meet one of their chief analog guys in 1988. The usual response from friends when I made them a tape on my Nak. was, "What did you use, I can't make my tapes sound like this?" The tapes sounded good on even much lesser machines (I noticed the same effect with video tapes make on my prosumer Panasonic machine ~1982). Never needed Dolby, either.
They used much better heads than others. Playbackhead gap was first 1 um, later they did it with 0,8um. Thus much better frequency response and lower noise floor. The 1000 ZXL did 10 Hz to 25Khz @-20 dB, +/- 0,5dB.
This machine used Toshiba FETs in the first amplifying stage connected to the playback heads. ( also the ZX 9, which sounded much better than the ZX 7 with normal transistors there.)
They used better Bias Circuits and better EQ Circuits with some compensation possibilities for the PB heads. Result was even better frequencylinearity.

The Dolby Chips were almost matched and paired ( with colored dots marked), and the signal had to go trough them, if Dolby was used or not.

And they did much better mechanics with dual capstan( with matched bearings), controlled tapeguidance and controlled torque in the take up wheels and brakewheels.

Also the azimuth control and autoadjustment was unique and gave better frequeny response.

anatech explained the better powersupplies and groundings.

The PB heads with their small gaps and more bandwith were the reason that Nakamichi recorded tapes sounded dull on other tapes, but foreign records. sounded much better on Nakas.
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Old 17th November 2011, 10:45 AM   #18015
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by Groove-T View Post
They used much better heads than others.
Not entirely true.

Long ago I owned a quite old Akai Tape Deck with dual head in glass ferrite, various included adjustments for the recording side and even build in generator for adjusting bias and recording EQ.

The mechanics where of a quality level (including dual capstan and an "aussenlaeufer" [outer rotor] motor of heroic build) that I not seen anything remotely the like of in any of the NAK's I serviced. It was of course completely discrete (IC count of zero). The microphone inputs where excellent too.

I suspect some Stasi P.I.G. swiped it together with my other HiFi Stuff and my motorbikes and my car when I fled east germany (when I was able to get back into east germany almost a year later nothing of what I had left behind could be found...).

This was the most extreme cassette tape machine I ever encountered, at the time I paid around halve a years worth of salary of a skilled worker for it.

Later in London I owned an equally antique Sony single head machine (also glass ferrite heads). It was also zero IC and it too had absolutely heroic build quality and both in terms of sound quality and build quality punched the snot out of all the NAK's I came across (note, I never serviced the Nak Dragon).

I still have a soft spot in my heart for those old machines, but I have zero remaining cassettes and no intention to get started again.

But the engineering that went into these was something else... Beautiful.

Ciao T
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Old 17th November 2011, 10:53 AM   #18016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post

The reason why CD sounds worse in the bass is the digital mess it adds to the original sound of the musical instruments.
What in the world does THAT mean?
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Old 17th November 2011, 11:16 AM   #18017
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Hi Torsten

i dont wanna bash other brands, i simply was a fan of nakas and did the service for them for whole switzerland from 1982- 85, so i had all of them in my hands.

Yep, glass ferrite heads in Akai were a good thing to, they were ultrahard, while the nakaheads were good for a few 1000 hours only, sometimes lesser, depending from tape.

I just meant, the small gap was the real secret togheter with active azimuth correction to get good frequency response.
Most glassferrite heads i have seen in other machines were a sandwich of PB and Rec head togheter and had at 20 Khz almost phase shift of 180 deg or more and could be adjusted just togheter.
The Dragon with PB azimuth control was really a clever idea with the DD- Double Capstan.
But it was lousy made and inside it looked like cooked spaghetti

I also remember the Eumig FL 1000 uP, which sounded pretty good, but always problems with uP and capstan drive.

Revox hat good mechanics with full electronic torque control, heads were not the real thing and the audio circuits i can not comment.
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Old 17th November 2011, 11:25 AM   #18018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Modern recordings can be technically brilliant - but most are rather sterile.
Hereby the link to live recording of Louis in Prague, 1965. The file size is 95MB, just one song in 24/96.

Free File Hosting, Online Storage &amp File Upload with FileServe
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Old 17th November 2011, 11:27 AM   #18019
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Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
I use a Kork MR-1000 with a pair of Microtech Gefell ORTF mics straight into the box. It sounds pretty damn good. When i make down sampled CDs from the master the main difference is in the bass. The master sounds a bit fuller, warmer and spacious.
Hello Joachim

Was this conversion done inside the Korg MR-1000 onto a CD , could you explain how you did the conversion if you did it differently , and also you playback setup configuration for the comparison.

Regards
Arthur
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Old 17th November 2011, 01:24 PM   #18020
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Just for the record, the spectrum of the part of Prague 1965 live recording.
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File Type: png prague_1965_spectrum.PNG (85.5 KB, 147 views)
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