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Old 3rd November 2011, 05:22 PM   #17491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissugar View Post
This is not true. You are spreading misinformation.
It is true that modulators in multibit delta sigma converters work at low bit and Mhz rates and then by decimation you obtain high wordlength low sampling rate but that not makes true what you say. In the audio band you can have 21 real bits.
Bob Adams gave me some advice at lunch, before entering into one of these discussions assess if any amount of evidence will change the others mind, if no walk away.

About the multibit converter stuff he just laughed.

Walking away and laughing seems like a good idea.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 3rd November 2011 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 05:23 PM   #17492
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,



Which mastering converter?



Nope, it does not, hence I suggested a few methods of observing said distortion.



If so, please illustrate where I fail to understand. But please make sure you are really certain about it. Do note come quoting folksy tales of magic dither or anything of the like, make sure you really are sure that what you point to is REAL.

The sticking point is that I have choosen to identify as distortion what in fact is A FORM of distortion, contrary to the folksy "magic" explanation that it somehow actually lowers distortion, when in fact it observably increases it, for two out of three samples, even though said "folksy magic" explanation is currently favoured in audio (well, they once favoured weapons salve too).

I do not think we per se disagree about the actual technical facts, where we part company is how we interpret things. I am not the least interrested in 64K samples averaged showing a low noise floor, as this low noisefloor is an illusion, what I am interested in is the fact that two in three or many more individual samples will simply be wrong, or distorted.

So to speak, from where you stand, I fail see the wood for the trees and from I stand, you fail to see the individual trees for the wood. I personally appreciate that things are never as black/white, however it often is necessary to go black/white to get the point across.

I note that still most people here cannot see the trees for the woods, pitty that, cause the devil is always in the detail, in the individual trees so to speak and no hand waving or building straw men will change that.

Ciao T
I note most people here are right on the mark, both from a theoretical and practical point of view. No amount of fuzzy logic or contorted hyperbole you have thrown into this discussion changes that one single lsb as far as I am concerned.

vac

Last edited by vacuphile; 3rd November 2011 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 05:48 PM   #17493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
About the multibit converter stuff he just laughed.

Walking away and laughing seems like a good idea.
Definitely, the best reasoning would be the captured transient, rather than walking and laughing. Everyone is able to walk and laugh

Or just let's show something like this:
Attached Images
File Type: png converter.PNG (46.5 KB, 212 views)
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Last edited by PMA; 3rd November 2011 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 06:26 PM   #17494
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Of course, most so-called "32 Bit" Dac's and Adc's are actually 8-12 Bit parts with dither and noiseshaping giving at best around 21 Bits ENOB with A-weighting and looking non too closely, only one current part manages actually 22Bit ENOB as DAC. But it still says "32 Bit" on the package...
Hi,
Are there any real 32 Bit or 24 Bit DAC chips?
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Old 3rd November 2011, 06:35 PM   #17495
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Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Hi,
Are there any real 32 Bit or 24 Bit DAC chips?
It is possible to build a 24 bit converter, but as far as I know no one does. 32 bits is not yet possible.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 06:56 PM   #17496
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Completely "linear" 24 bit converter is IMO impossible.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 06:58 PM   #17497
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Too much Johnson noise at room temperature.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 07:14 PM   #17498
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Originally Posted by PMA View Post
Completely "linear" 24 bit converter is IMO impossible.
Pavel,

Would you like to sign a non-disclosure agreement?

ES
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Old 3rd November 2011, 07:19 PM   #17499
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Why not, but let's not do it in public
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Old 3rd November 2011, 07:56 PM   #17500
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Why not, but let's not do it in public
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