John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 1052 - diyAudio
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:25 AM   #10511
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Default Don't Argue With Idiots Either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Thank you, Dave.
I couldn't say it better.
Thanks Joshua.
I could say much more, but that would just start more arguments.

Dave.
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:39 AM   #10512
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I never said I can be free of the placebo effect, all I said was that there ways to neutralize it.
Such as...?
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:46 AM   #10513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmeister View Post
Thanks Joshua.
I could say much more, but that would just start more arguments.

Dave.
Hi Dave,
Arguments seem to be unavoidable here, whether you'll write in brief and very concise manner and whether you'll write at length and elaborate.
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:47 AM   #10514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Such as...?
Let's start with small steps.
Do you hold that I need double blind ABX tests in order to detect a very loud hum in my sound system?
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:51 AM   #10515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G
I never said I can be free of the placebo effect, all I said was that there ways to neutralize it.
Okay, but, what do you mean by neutralize it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G
No, I'm not free of the placebo effect, but in spite of the placebo effect and on top of it, there are (sometimes) real and actual phenomena I actually hear.
Right, yes there are!
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Old 4th March 2011, 12:58 AM   #10516
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Let's start with small steps.
Do you hold that I need double blind ABX tests in order to detect a very loud hum in my sound system?
No, nor has anyone ever suggested that ABX is the only acceptable format where blind testing is appropriate.

Now, since we've dealt with that question about a million times, why don't you skip to the end and tell us how placebo effects can be neutralized- and without introducing other non-auditory cues.
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Old 4th March 2011, 01:14 AM   #10517
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Soundminded, I still can't get into: 'Prelude from Tristan and Isolde' even with a good orchestra, and that was the middle selection. The other two might have been worth it.
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Old 4th March 2011, 04:02 AM   #10518
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Hi all, good reading and it has made me think...

When a golden eared audiophile has a real inner experience of hearing minute differences (say between electronics) that later disappear when he is not allowed to see the equipment, I conclude that his inner experience is not based on an external reality. However to reach this conclusion I have to make the assumption that his actual hearing sensitivity is exactly the same in both instances. How can I know it is?
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Old 4th March 2011, 06:15 AM   #10519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Are saying that no one, under no condition and under no test procedure can have a genuine impression of the SQ of audio system, free of the Placebo Effect?
No.

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Old 4th March 2011, 06:24 AM   #10520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Thank you for putting yourself in the open, I appreciate it very much.[snip].
I never said otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
[snip]However I'm unclear about the first part.
If you don't trust your listening ability, why use it?
If you do trust your listening ability, why use reputation and technical specifications?
[snip]
I'm not conciously saying: aha, this amp has a good reputation, so it must sound great, but I have no doubt that it somehow plays a role.
And I have no problem enjoying sound and music from, say, my latest self-designed and build amp even if I know that in a blind test it probably sounds identical to the previous one. What else can you do? But the realisation prevents me from saying to others: build this amp because it sounds better than anything else. That's a luxury I have because I'm not into selling them.

Quote:
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[snip]I'm extremely suspicious about reputation.[snip].
Really? The impression I get from your posts is that you support anything Mr Curl says, whatever the contents. Surely that must be based on reputation?

jan didden
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