John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 1007 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:56 PM   #10061
jcx is online now jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
we do however like to be able to reproduce those phenomena under controlled conditions with statistically significant results - preferably with independent replications

it would even be acceptable for just a subset of the “golden ears” population to be able to demonstrate any one of their “phenomena” in front of “objective” observers under controlled conditions to spark new perceptual research
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:57 PM   #10062
DF96 is offline DF96  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
It could be suggested that some 'subjectivists' discard any explanation, preferring instead to believe that there is no current explanation. This enables them to retain their mysticism.

One of the features of the placebo effect is that it still works even when people are aware of it. It works even better when people deny it. For some reason some people seem to think that they are immune from it, so they get very annoyed when it is mentioned.

One way to test whether someone has good grounds for their views is to challenge them. The more angry their response the weaker is their case.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:04 PM   #10063
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundminded View Post
Have you ever considered that the real source of problems is the inferiority of 50 hz power compared to 60 hz power? More ripple at a lower frequency. More time between peaks to recharge power supply filter caps. What brand of motor-generator set sounds best to you. Have you considered 400 hz? I think the German company Pillar makes some fairly good ones.
I don't know if it's because of the mains frequency. I have no control over the local mains frequency. All I know is that there are audible differences between power outlets and power distributors from different makes, on my sound system, where I live.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:06 PM   #10064
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Ed, the best way to understand high end audio is indeed studying abnormal behavior and religious beliefs.
Is that statement based on nay scientific facts, or is it only your assumption?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:08 PM   #10065
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Soundminded, have you ever conversed with Dr. Bose? Do you know anybody who has? If so, what pearls of wisdom did they convey that came from him?
As I recall you posted that he had personally demonstrated his 901 to you. Is my recollection of your posting wrong? Evidently he had nothing of interest to say to catch your attention....unlike Paul Klipsch who kept you amused for years.

The words I paraphrased from him came from his white paper. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of it anymore, at least I can't find it. There were ideas worth considering in it. I know most people do not like his products and probably don't like him even though they never met him. However, to dismiss everything he ever said or wrote would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think he was interviewed by one of the magazines some time back, maybe even Stereophile. I can't remember which mag it was. He talked about the difficulty of getting started. Love him or hate him, there is no denying that he was a commercial success in a very big way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:11 PM   #10066
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
It is not so amusing because it is not true. Those who you call 'objectivists' do NOT discard any phenomena they cannot explain.

It should be clear for those who read these posts here, but maybe it needs to be restated once in a while again.

I am not assuming that you deliberately tell these lies but it gets harder and harder.

jan didden
Jan, those who write here that the differences I hear are all due to placebo effect, without knowing how I decide about the reality of those audible changes, are speculating in way that is anything but scientific.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:12 PM   #10067
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I don't know if it's because of the mains frequency. I have no control over the local mains frequency. All I know is that there are audible differences between power outlets and power distributors from different makes, on my sound system, where I live.
And you haven't tried a motor alternator or static double conversion UPS yet? And you say everything counts? I just bought a nice one from Eaton for about $30,000. Excellent model. It's for a laboratory but it would work fine on a hi fi set. Now don't tell me you tried one of those cheap $300 line interactive UPSs and you didn't like it. That hardly counts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:14 PM   #10068
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
... yes, and that includes you. That is the basic thing that you refuse to even contemplate, even if you know and acknowledge that the effect itself exist. Except for you, of course.

jan didden
How can you say that without knowing how I determine whether the audible differences I hear are real, or not? Such a statement, without knowing the procedure I take, is nothing but a speculation, as far from scientific approach as it can be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:17 PM   #10069
diyAudio Member
 
Joshua_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Small village, Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
we do however like to be able to reproduce those phenomena under controlled conditions with statistically significant results - preferably with independent replications

it would even be acceptable for just a subset of the “golden ears” population to be able to demonstrate any one of their “phenomena” in front of “objective” observers under controlled conditions to spark new perceptual research
I have no interest, neither in proving nor in demonstrating.
All I care about is the sound quality of my sound system, within the limits of my financial resources.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:19 PM   #10070
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
Jan, those who write here that the differences I hear are all due to placebo effect, without knowing how I decide about the reality of those audible changes, are speculating in way that is anything but scientific.
BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT! Can't you get it right? First of all, the placebo effect and all its manifestations are scientifically proven and explained.
Secondly, to accept statements by you or anybody else any half-way intelligent person would want to have some evidence that the reported phenomenon actually DOES exist, and a good way is to do controlled tests.
Precisely because we want to ELIMINATE the placebo (and any other perception-related non-auditory clues).
As someone above said (jcx?), I wish someone came up with a good proof for an unlikely phenomenon. That would really be exciting, really be something to dig in!

jan didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:02 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2