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Old 22nd February 2011, 02:15 PM   #10031
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I strongly suspect that serious challenges to the physics I currently believe to be true are more likely to come from places like CERN or MIT than the unconventional beliefs of an audiophile with an alleged magic tweak who has read a few books.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 02:36 PM   #10032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Better to ignore it, than make up mean and inaccurate excuses to explain it away.
If I built Ed's test jig and went to our RF screenroom and spent hours of my own time picking apart the cables to find the source of the issues I would be considered by some here to be mean spirited and on some kind of vendetta. That is why I ask him, as I said before those making extraordinary claims seem to be the LEAST curious about what is really going on. (That is not aimed at you Ed, though you do seem to have the energy. Remember Nelson's article showing how much simply bulk R, L and C can do in cables.)
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Old 22nd February 2011, 02:40 PM   #10033
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Default Somebody Told Me Cables Cannot Be Directional...

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BTW the idea about axial symmetry being an issue is the first sensible statement about cable directionality I have ever seen. It could affect interchannel crosstalk. Unfortunately someone will now start talking nonsense about photon helicity. Ooops, I just did!
In the TT example I gave, I inadvertently terminated the channel cables in opposite directions.
I stripped and prepared both ends of a length of el-cheapo shielded single channel audio signal cable and terminated these ends at the TT.
I then cut the then mounted cable at the midpoint and fitted RCA plugs.
Signal level and response from both channels were the same, however the stereo centre image was shifted slightly to one side and using the balance control did not cure this condition.
Bad solder/termination is a possible reason, however I am confident that this was not the cause because I did resolder all connections in the first case in an effort to resolve the issue.
I even tried swapping connections at the phono cartridge output pins and no change.
I also swapped the channel assignments of the tone arm wires and still not fixed!.
At this point I gave up and just lived with the problem.

A few months later a hifi dealer (well respected) showed me a pair of interconnects that exhibited for some reason a directional effect - same as my TT, when the IC's were connected in opposing directions, stereo centre image shifted slightly off to one side, and when both cables were reversed (still reversed wrt each other) the stereo centre image shifted to the other side.
With both IC's connected in the same direction, centre image central imaging was restored.

After witnessing this, I returned to the TT problrem and removed the RCA plug from one channel, reversed the cable direction and refitted the RCA plug.
After this, centre imaging was correct.

I don't care about any stinking theories of what causes this, however I do know the condition occurred in these two cases, and confirmed in later experiments.

Eric.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 02:55 PM   #10034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfeedback
Bad solder/termination is a possible reason, however I am confident that this was not the cause because I did resolder all connections in the first case in an effort to resolve the issue.
The only time I had that issue was due to bad connection with some Oval Analysis cables where their solderless connection had come loose.

Maybe something else was going on with your cable - don't know. I've never observed cable direction with cheap cables I've used (they have no direction labeled on them) and have never that issue. I don't see why symmetric designed cables would have directionality.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 02:55 PM   #10035
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Another thing Howard, as you saw with the Naim folks. Tests like Ed's are meant by some to open the door to challenging the property of symmetry in physics. Due diligence by the experimenter demands the elimination of other possibilities or it is just random data.
Which of course is why when some of us get surprising (or even astounding) results we repeat the experiment multiple times to see what is really going on, refine the measurement equipment over the course of a few years, privately show the experiment to knowledgeable colleagues, then we publish in detail the method used and hope to see if others can confirm or explain them.

So far every theory I have tested, such as microdiodes has not held up.


I am perfectly open to issues such as connectors that mate better with one side of the set up than the other, effects due to skin effect as my test rig approaches that range, or other possibilities. When I have time I will try more experiments. I have learned quite a bit from some of the well informed comments.

Scott,

The problem with finding one reason is that it may be a combination of problems can either cause similar results or combine to provide the results shown. I am sharing observations, on the other hand I do have a magic solution that will actually change the way interconnects behave. Just send me $95.00 and you will get a very small amount in return.

The wary will note I did not say "Improve."

ES

Last edited by simon7000; 22nd February 2011 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 03:33 PM   #10036
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I strongly suspect that serious challenges to the physics I currently believe to be true are more likely to come from places like CERN or MIT than the unconventional beliefs of an audiophile with an alleged magic tweak who has read a few books.
How did you get the notion hat audiophiles perform tweaks after reading whatever?
Real audiophiles perform tweaks according to listening tests only.

From experience I know that almost everything affects the sound of an audio system, though many times I don't know how and why. Even different power outlets have a big impact on the sound, though I have no clue why is it so.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 03:39 PM   #10037
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From experience I know that almost everything affects the sound of an audio system, though many times I don't know how and why, I have no clue why is it so.
Likely because you continue to refuse to accept the hanky panky that goes on in the head department.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 03:56 PM   #10038
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I never said that audiophiles perform tweaks after reading. More likely, they read a few books and then offer spurious 'explanations' of what they believe they have heard by using buzzwords learnt from the books.

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Real audiophiles perform tweaks according to listening tests only.
That must be why I generally ignore anything that type of 'real audiophile' says. Wiser people have heard of the placebo effect, and so don't fully trust their own ears let alone other people's ears.

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I have no clue why is it so.
Yes.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 04:03 PM   #10039
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Dr. Bose taught at MIT. Should we then all buy Bose?
CERN is a great place, and Europe has taken over the deep physics research, at least the big questions. I can look from the front of my apartment to see Lawrence Berkeley Labs on the hill above. There, they 'discovered' many new elements, back in the '40's and '50's. So what? Should I go up the hill and ask them about an audio tweak? Usually, the situation is reversed, and they ask me, instead. Why? Because I have studied audio more than most, and have been relatively successful in my judgments. And so it goes.
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Old 22nd February 2011, 04:18 PM   #10040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Should I go up the hill and ask them about an audio tweak?
It might be worthwhile (if you're interested in reality rather than marketing) to ask people who know something about physics if claims of "magic" devices are plausible and comport with first principles. There are plenty of "people who know something" right on the Berkeley campus. That's bound to be more fruitful than flinging around half-understood (to be generous) buzzwords relating to physics.
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