I've never used crack'ed software...

[redrabbit]

...but....there's a copy of a very expensive schematic software that a friend gave me, and it's sitting on my desk staring at me, uninstalled.

I have always held true to my policy...don't use crack'ed ware. Ever.
Why ?
Because if everyone did, those companies would not sell anything, and soon be out-of-business.....eliminating useful tools for those that need them.
Even if sales are only "hurt" because of non-purchases, that reduces R&D upgrades, customer service.....resulting in a deteriorating product.

I don't expect anyone to admit here that they use crack'ed ware....but I'm sure many do.

The problem is....I really could use this program. I almost "need" it, as the next step to expand this hobby. But it costs as much as a new computer (I need that soon too).
Times are tough these days money-wise, and the temptation to install it is real.

People all around me use illegal stuff, saying, "paying full price for it is for the big guys, you're just a little guy, you'll just be using it for yourself, you're not using it to make money."

If I had the money, there is one possible solution....start a small electronics-based business, apply for a DBA, buy it (and a new computer), and write it off on my taxes as a loss for a few years....then close the business. (keeping the business open? maybe, but I don't think there's much profit in this area....I could do much better in another venture).

So, talk me out of it, or into it.


=RR=

[Geek]

Hi,

There is always free alternatives

Do you just want to draw schematics? Check the downloads on my hobby site (in sig) for Schematic Symbols. All in .bmp format for any OS + image program (like M$ Paint)

Eagle has some, I believe.

gEda has them if you are a *nix/BSD user.

Some archive sites carry Circuit Maker Student Free still.

Cheers!

[theAnonymous1]

I don't see how you can ask anyone to make an ethical decision for you.

To get the right perspective here, lets point out we are talking about intangible intellectual property, not some stolen property with physical value.

You have already admitted that you do not have the money to pay for this software, so the intellectual property owner will not see any money from you whether you decide to use it or not.

Do you stand to profit from the use of this software?

This all comes down to your personal ethics. Either option you choose will have zero effect on anything but your conscience.

The world will never know.

[Steerpike]

I can't agree that it ISN"T stolen property with physical value.

Something like a good CD player - the actual materials it's made from are work almost nothing, but the knowledge and skill required to create the end product are what makes it cost hundred to thousads of dollars. So is it ok to steal it?

With software, music, or video copies, it's no different to walking into a store, slipping the item under your coat, and walking out with it - except it's easier.

Would you shop-lift if you knew you weren't going to get found out?

Suppose someone gave you a computer, and said "Hey, I managed to steal this from the warehouse where I work".
Would you keep it ?

I do think a lot of software is way overprced (MS windows for one), and it's great that some companies do offer cheaper educational or student or home-use editions.
Alternatively, there IS Linux and open source.

[theAnonymous1]

I think you missed my point completely Steerpike.

The examples you gave are for PHYSICAL items; meaning if they are stolen then there is a PHYSICAL loss of property and value.

You can't apply that argument to something that is intangible and infinite. This simply comes down to ethics, and nothing more.

[SY]

It also comes down to legality (it's a crime, no more and no less) and to incentive- as pointed out earlier, the more lucrative is the generation of intellectual property, the more incentive to generate it. If IP is stolen (and it is stealing, no more and no less), there is less incentive for people to generate more of it. Everyone suffers.

[theAnonymous1]

I won't argue that it's illegal, unethical, immoral, wrong, etc., etc., etc.

My point is, if you have a piece of IP in your possession (illegally) that you either never planned to buy, or do not have the money to buy, then who are you hurting? No one has "lost" anything in this situation because it was never there to give.

The fact it is illegal is pretty much moot, as the "crime" has to be caught and the law enforced for it to even matter.

Of course this is wrong by societies standards, but life is neither perfect nor fair.

This is pretty much a pointless discussion. Either use the software and live with the horrible person you have become, or throw it away and forget about it.

[Steerpike]

The examples you gave are for PHYSICAL items; meaning if they are stolen then there is a PHYSICAL loss of property and value.

I got your point, but I don't agree that it is a valid point.

A parallel is something like a movie on DVD.... Warner or whoever is not concerned about the physical value of the DVD itself, which cost a few cents to manufacture, they are concerned about the $20 VALUE of the material recorded thereron.

Does that make it Ok to copy the DVD and return it for a refund, but not OK to steal it from a store and keep it forever?
Ok, maybe you're saying in the first case they still have the DVD that they can sell on to another person....??

[rdf]

Originally posted by redrabbit
Because if everyone did, those companies would not sell anything, and soon be out-of-business.....

False dilemma. A very strong argument can be made that Microsoft's success is built on being very widely pirated in the early days, and they made more than enough money. The odds of 'everyone' stealing it are about zero. Think business users, liability and support. Like Geek says though, plenty of free or free-for-use alternatives. Maybe LTSpice does all you need?
Confusing intellectual and physical property is an industry in itself. Steerpike's arguments are perfect examples, ignoring the billions of dollars of industrial infrastructure from mines to storefront that stands behind every cheap CD player. Should society could collapse tomorrow songs will be freely sung about it but don't hold your breath for the CD release.

[dangus]

I agree. If Autocad had been uncopiable, I doubt it would have become a virtual industry standard. I know of one business that started out using a "borrowed" copy, and ended up buying the real thing.

The real loser in piracy is the budget software companies. I'm not likely to buy a pfsWrite if I can get MS Word for nothing.