IP issues - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th June 2007, 01:47 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Columbia, SC
If you are thinking of buying boards from the guy, ask him. He should support his boards.

Grey
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 01:54 PM   #2
jarthel is offline jarthel  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: somewhere in Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by GRollins
If you are thinking of buying boards from the guy, ask him. He should support his boards.

Grey

The use of chokes has been discussed before (even without mentioning his website). I've seen replies by Nelson Pass about the use of chokes in an CLC config.

so I thought my thread is quite valid

ps. and I am not thinking of buying his boards.

Also, just because the board was supplied by a person, doesn't mean I should ask the seller. Peter Daniel has sold F4 boards (and many others) but it doesn't mean people is limited to asking questions directly to him.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 02:24 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Columbia, SC
Quote:
Originally posted by jarthel



...just because the board was supplied by a person, doesn't mean I should ask the seller. Peter Daniel has sold F4 boards (and many others) but it doesn't mean people is limited to asking questions directly to him.

Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.

Grey
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 03:24 PM   #4
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Netlist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Please have a look at this and following posts in case their is doubt about IP and KK:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...608#post431608

/Hugo
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 03:46 PM   #5
ssmith is offline ssmith  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris
Quote:
Originally posted by GRollins

Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.
Grey

Quote:
Originally posted by Netlist
Please have a look at this and following posts in case their is doubt about IP and KK:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...608#post431608
/Hugo



I read the thread referred to by Netlist before buying some pcbs from Kristijan (which are superb quality by the way). But is there still some big IP problem going on????
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 03:51 PM   #6
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Netlist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
No, there isn’t. Nelson gave his blessing for the Kristjan boards.

/Hugo
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 09:34 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Columbia, SC
There's an old saying that it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.
There's another principle that applies: A man will always do what feels best or hurts least. Most people think they understand this statement, but their responses tend to indicate that their comprehension is trivial at best. It is more subtle and powerful than some seem to realize.
I find the idea that kristijan-k is not making a profit in spite of charging more than it costs him to get the boards made to be a distinction without a difference.
My point of view is different from many members' here. Why? Because I have written stories and had them ripped off. My intellectual property rights have been violated.
In some circumstances the thieves were rude. In others they were polite. Polite? Oh, yes. You see, they feel that they're doing you a "favor" by "exposing your work to a wider audience." The fact that you never received a cent (and they did) is the true indicator of their intentions. A variation on this has it that they are due all the money because they went to the trouble to select the work, arrange for printing, promote the work, etc.
Those who feel that "information wants to be free" should explain, in a hundred words or less, how an inanimate, abstract construct can 'want' anything. It seems to me that it's the recipients of the intellectual property who want it to be free.
So we have kristijan-k, who began selling boards without asking permission, who then oh-so-politely begs forgiveness if he has ruffled any feathers by doing so. He charges more than it costs him to make the boards, but it's not a profit you see, because he says it's not a profit. Who, judging from the number of posts here begging for help or explication regarding his product, does not support his boards very well; he hasn't posted here in three years and some seem to feel that he doesn't answer his e-mail readily.
And people tolerate this.
Why?
Well, the charitable answer is that people simply aren't attuned to the idea of intellectual property and that a little education will rectify matters. Perhaps so. I, based on personal experience, have a somewhat more cynical view, however. I believe that the majority of kristijan-k's supporters do not want a source of circuit boards cut off because they are unwilling to make them for themselves; it both feels best and hurts least. It would be interesting to see how many people would continue to support kristijan-k if they were making their own boards or were building circuits point-to-point. I think it likely that a large portion of his supporters would suddenly discover scruples.
There's also the fact that it's not worth taking someone to court if they are so small that you would not even recoup court costs. Add to that the fact that there are certain nations (my biggest problem is Russia at the moment) that simply do not enforce intellectual property rights. Any attempt to bring a case before a court will be stillborn. It's not worth the money and effort to begin. Croatia, from what I hear, is such a place. Ergo, it's just not worth it to Nelson and the path of least resistance is to treat it as fait accompli and go on to the next problem. In the overall scheme of things it's a flea bite to him, compared to chip manufacturers who want to put opamps on the market employing error correction methods that he developed.
Nelson has been very generous to the DIY community. I try to err on the side of caution, rather than abuse his generosity. Others have different views, obviously. My view is based on having created something only to see others profit from it.
Try it sometime. See how you like it before you comment.

Grey
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2007, 11:01 PM   #8
jarthel is offline jarthel  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: somewhere in Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by GRollins



Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.

Grey
being new to the pass labs section of diyaudio, I do not know about IP issues with kk-pcb. Also, if I buy something from mouser, can't I ask a question here in regards to the parts that I bought?


anyway, please don't make this thread off-topic as it is already. This is about the chokes in a power supply. not intellectual property/copyright.

Thank you very much
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2007, 05:58 AM   #9
smario is offline smario  Croatia
diyAudio Member
 
smario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Zagreb
Send a message via AIM to smario Send a message via MSN to smario Send a message via Yahoo to smario
Quote:
Originally posted by GRollins

....
There's also the fact that it's not worth taking someone to court if they are so small that you would not even recoup court costs. Add to that the fact that there are certain nations (my biggest problem is Russia at the moment) that simply do not enforce intellectual property rights. Any attempt to bring a case before a court will be stillborn. It's not worth the money and effort to begin. Croatia, from what I hear, is such a place. .....

Grey
You don' know anything about Croatia. We are in the stone age here and steal anything we can.
__________________
Class A rules !
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2007, 09:09 AM   #10
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
Netlist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
A few points:
1) Peer pressure is a good thing and we encourage members to respect IP.
We appreciate it when violation of own and others IP is reported.

2) In this particular case, Nelson is the one to judge and given the fact that he approved
Kristjan’s boards as not commercial, he should be the final arbiter in case he changes his mind.

3) No matter where you live, stealing remains stealing. Conscientious and fair play of the individual is more highly regarded than local laws and practices.

/Hugo
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NAD 216 issues Kamuy Solid State 28 17th December 2009 03:16 PM
WAF issues Lostcause Full Range 15 17th August 2008 03:21 PM
CFB Issues Fuling Tubes / Valves 12 23rd August 2005 07:34 PM
Windows XP issues.. mikeks The Lounge 7 9th July 2005 10:29 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:39 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2