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-   -   IP issues (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/104258-ip-issues.html)

GRollins 26th June 2007 01:47 PM

If you are thinking of buying boards from the guy, ask him. He should support his boards.

Grey

jarthel 26th June 2007 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins
If you are thinking of buying boards from the guy, ask him. He should support his boards.

Grey


The use of chokes has been discussed before (even without mentioning his website). I've seen replies by Nelson Pass about the use of chokes in an CLC config.

so I thought my thread is quite valid :)

ps. and I am not thinking of buying his boards.

Also, just because the board was supplied by a person, doesn't mean I should ask the seller. Peter Daniel has sold F4 boards (and many others) but it doesn't mean people is limited to asking questions directly to him.

GRollins 26th June 2007 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jarthel



...just because the board was supplied by a person, doesn't mean I should ask the seller. Peter Daniel has sold F4 boards (and many others) but it doesn't mean people is limited to asking questions directly to him.


Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.

Grey

Netlist 26th June 2007 03:24 PM

Please have a look at this and following posts in case their is doubt about IP and KK:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...608#post431608

/Hugo

ssmith 26th June 2007 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins

Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.
Grey


Quote:

Originally posted by Netlist
Please have a look at this and following posts in case their is doubt about IP and KK:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...608#post431608
/Hugo


:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I read the thread referred to by Netlist before buying some pcbs from Kristijan (which are superb quality by the way). But is there still some big IP problem going on????

Netlist 26th June 2007 03:51 PM

No, there isnít. Nelson gave his blessing for the Kristjan boards.

/Hugo

GRollins 26th June 2007 09:34 PM

There's an old saying that it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.
There's another principle that applies: A man will always do what feels best or hurts least. Most people think they understand this statement, but their responses tend to indicate that their comprehension is trivial at best. It is more subtle and powerful than some seem to realize.
I find the idea that kristijan-k is not making a profit in spite of charging more than it costs him to get the boards made to be a distinction without a difference.
My point of view is different from many members' here. Why? Because I have written stories and had them ripped off. My intellectual property rights have been violated.
In some circumstances the thieves were rude. In others they were polite. Polite? Oh, yes. You see, they feel that they're doing you a "favor" by "exposing your work to a wider audience." The fact that you never received a cent (and they did) is the true indicator of their intentions. A variation on this has it that they are due all the money because they went to the trouble to select the work, arrange for printing, promote the work, etc.
Those who feel that "information wants to be free" should explain, in a hundred words or less, how an inanimate, abstract construct can 'want' anything. It seems to me that it's the recipients of the intellectual property who want it to be free.
So we have kristijan-k, who began selling boards without asking permission, who then oh-so-politely begs forgiveness if he has ruffled any feathers by doing so. He charges more than it costs him to make the boards, but it's not a profit you see, because he says it's not a profit. Who, judging from the number of posts here begging for help or explication regarding his product, does not support his boards very well; he hasn't posted here in three years and some seem to feel that he doesn't answer his e-mail readily.
And people tolerate this.
Why?
Well, the charitable answer is that people simply aren't attuned to the idea of intellectual property and that a little education will rectify matters. Perhaps so. I, based on personal experience, have a somewhat more cynical view, however. I believe that the majority of kristijan-k's supporters do not want a source of circuit boards cut off because they are unwilling to make them for themselves; it both feels best and hurts least. It would be interesting to see how many people would continue to support kristijan-k if they were making their own boards or were building circuits point-to-point. I think it likely that a large portion of his supporters would suddenly discover scruples.
There's also the fact that it's not worth taking someone to court if they are so small that you would not even recoup court costs. Add to that the fact that there are certain nations (my biggest problem is Russia at the moment) that simply do not enforce intellectual property rights. Any attempt to bring a case before a court will be stillborn. It's not worth the money and effort to begin. Croatia, from what I hear, is such a place. Ergo, it's just not worth it to Nelson and the path of least resistance is to treat it as fait accompli and go on to the next problem. In the overall scheme of things it's a flea bite to him, compared to chip manufacturers who want to put opamps on the market employing error correction methods that he developed.
Nelson has been very generous to the DIY community. I try to err on the side of caution, rather than abuse his generosity. Others have different views, obviously. My view is based on having created something only to see others profit from it.
Try it sometime. See how you like it before you comment.

Grey

jarthel 26th June 2007 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins



Peter Daniel supports his boards and doesn't thumb his nose at intellectual property concepts.

Grey

being new to the pass labs section of diyaudio, I do not know about IP issues with kk-pcb. Also, if I buy something from mouser, can't I ask a question here in regards to the parts that I bought?


anyway, please don't make this thread off-topic as it is already. This is about the chokes in a power supply. not intellectual property/copyright.

Thank you very much :)

smario 27th June 2007 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins

....
There's also the fact that it's not worth taking someone to court if they are so small that you would not even recoup court costs. Add to that the fact that there are certain nations (my biggest problem is Russia at the moment) that simply do not enforce intellectual property rights. Any attempt to bring a case before a court will be stillborn. It's not worth the money and effort to begin. Croatia, from what I hear, is such a place. .....

Grey

You don' know anything about Croatia. We are in the stone age here and steal anything we can.

Netlist 27th June 2007 09:09 AM

A few points:
1) Peer pressure is a good thing and we encourage members to respect IP.
We appreciate it when violation of own and others IP is reported.

2) In this particular case, Nelson is the one to judge and given the fact that he approved
Kristjanís boards as not commercial, he should be the final arbiter in case he changes his mind.

3) No matter where you live, stealing remains stealing. Conscientious and fair play of the individual is more highly regarded than local laws and practices.

/Hugo


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