I am looking for a MIDI controller keyboard where I can hack into the faders and keyboard contacts and extend them about one meter out to an outboard circuit.
the trouble is that most of them seem to use really complicated velocity sensitive keyboard circuits that are hard to mod at all.
I just hacked up a "Novation remote 25" keyboard which has about 30 MIDI-cc potentiometers, 30 keys and an XY pad.
when I got inside the keyboard contacts, it turns out that each key is activated by four contacts on each key, that look like the number four on a dice
, plus a bizarre long ribbon connector that runs the whole length of the keyboard under all the keys but that doesn't look like it can make electrical contact with anything very oddly.
to activate a key, I have to join the top and bottom pairs of contacts for that key. I have hacked into the circuit and extended it into copper wires (from a mouse cable) that are about one meter long.
when I try and join the notes one meter away it is tricky getting the contact and then when it does it often hangs on a gate on.
is it really tough to hack into velocity sensitive keyboards?
is it unwise trying to extend circuit board contact for potentiometers and keys about a meter away from the commercial keyboard? Will the static buildup screw it up?
surely modifying commercial stuff is better because you get so many extras like USB, program/Channel changes, knobs and wheels and buttons etc...?
the trouble is that most of them seem to use really complicated velocity sensitive keyboard circuits that are hard to mod at all.
I just hacked up a "Novation remote 25" keyboard which has about 30 MIDI-cc potentiometers, 30 keys and an XY pad.
when I got inside the keyboard contacts, it turns out that each key is activated by four contacts on each key, that look like the number four on a dice
, plus a bizarre long ribbon connector that runs the whole length of the keyboard under all the keys but that doesn't look like it can make electrical contact with anything very oddly.to activate a key, I have to join the top and bottom pairs of contacts for that key. I have hacked into the circuit and extended it into copper wires (from a mouse cable) that are about one meter long.
when I try and join the notes one meter away it is tricky getting the contact and then when it does it often hangs on a gate on.
is it really tough to hack into velocity sensitive keyboards?
is it unwise trying to extend circuit board contact for potentiometers and keys about a meter away from the commercial keyboard? Will the static buildup screw it up?
surely modifying commercial stuff is better because you get so many extras like USB, program/Channel changes, knobs and wheels and buttons etc...?
main novation controller for the remote series into which the different controller/key panels are plugged, with USB/power, MIDI, all the keyboard IO.
The pitchbend XY wheel and the cheapo XY pad that you think would be the strength of this board are at the left, still an excellent controller.
The pitchbend XY wheel and the cheapo XY pad that you think would be the strength of this board are at the left, still an excellent controller.
Attachments
thanks for the encouragement, in any case, I figured out what the ribbon is going along the length of the keys, it is a resistor that measures channel aftertouch which is a mono MIDI message
I also found that there is no easy way of turning the contacts from any commercial MIDI controller with velocity sensitivity into basic note on off keys like to get on a DIY MIDI board, unless you are really a mad electronics buff it is literally a type of electronic shafting for anyone that triesbecause all the velocity sensitive contact go into a really fkkkkt bastard microcontroller
however if you really wanted to you could use some of the Midi potentiometers and remap them somehow, if you have some kind of program, into keys and use them as switches.
I also found that there is no easy way of turning the contacts from any commercial MIDI controller with velocity sensitivity into basic note on off keys like to get on a DIY MIDI board, unless you are really a mad electronics buff it is literally a type of electronic shafting for anyone that triesbecause all the velocity sensitive contact go into a really fkkkkt bastard microcontroller
however if you really wanted to you could use some of the Midi potentiometers and remap them somehow, if you have some kind of program, into keys and use them as switches.
Haha, you are doing exactly the same thing as I tried to do 2 years ago with my edirol PCR50
those stupid pads are almost impossible to reengineer
i was trying to make the keys into piezo trigger drum pads for an eDrum kit.
Basically to register a key press the switches close a few milliseconds apart, and the micro deciphers the time difference as the key velocity.
I had made a ramping signal that ramped according to the voltage peak of the piezo (peak hold cct into constant current ouput opamp charging a capacitor if i recall), then triggered two comparators as it ramped up. then the ramp reset after the second comparator had triggered. but it required 5 opamps, a few transisitors and a whole lot of mucking around tuning the ramp times etc. in short, it worked terribly. perhaps good in theory though
What are you extending the wires to do? I ended up building this http://www.edrum.info/ to make my edrum set and it was much simpler and worked straight away haha
plus my keyboard stayed intact
those stupid pads are almost impossible to reengineer
i was trying to make the keys into piezo trigger drum pads for an eDrum kit.
Basically to register a key press the switches close a few milliseconds apart, and the micro deciphers the time difference as the key velocity.
I had made a ramping signal that ramped according to the voltage peak of the piezo (peak hold cct into constant current ouput opamp charging a capacitor if i recall), then triggered two comparators as it ramped up. then the ramp reset after the second comparator had triggered. but it required 5 opamps, a few transisitors and a whole lot of mucking around tuning the ramp times etc. in short, it worked terribly. perhaps good in theory though
What are you extending the wires to do? I ended up building this http://www.edrum.info/ to make my edrum set and it was much simpler and worked straight away haha
plus my keyboard stayed intact
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21564&highlight=
wow, i even posted on here about it, and it was 3.5 years ago... now i feel like im getting old fast
wow, i even posted on here about it, and it was 3.5 years ago... now i feel like im getting old fast
Optical, thank you so much for the info, I was thinking of exact same thing for the past week, and am really glad you saved me both time and $$!
I was also thinking of building an eDrum if the keyboard hack doesn't work out. The thing is, I cannot get to the eDrum site for the past 4 days... I hope it comes back eventually. I even tried to contact admir (the eDrum guy), but apparently don't have enough posts here to do that.
Thanks again! - ardo.
I was also thinking of building an eDrum if the keyboard hack doesn't work out. The thing is, I cannot get to the eDrum site for the past 4 days...
I hope it comes back eventually. I even tried to contact admir (the eDrum guy), but apparently don't have enough posts here to do that. Thanks again! - ardo.
I'm definitely with you on that one, some really tough work figuring it out-there's lots of excellent DIY MIDI boards that come with all the contacts for potentiometers and key switches-so for example if you wanted to make a laser harp with a bunch of lasers and light sensing switches that would be the only way to go.
COMPLETELY SOLVED
At least this is a way of having switch access to note data on a keyboard, it's the remote 25 controller I think it sells for about USD150 used on eBay.
On the novation website, they have a templates configuration program for the keyboard where you can assign all of the buttons to different functions like toggle and gates and keyboard notes, so you can wire into the buttons and assign them to keyboards.ooops should have thought of that
At least this is a way of having switch access to note data on a keyboard, it's the remote 25 controller I think it sells for about USD150 used on eBay.
On the novation website, they have a templates configuration program for the keyboard where you can assign all of the buttons to different functions like toggle and gates and keyboard notes, so you can wire into the buttons and assign them to keyboards.ooops should have thought of that
COMPLETELY NOT SOLVED...
the potentiometer is on this commercial MIDI controller by novation a pathetic, if you try and use it for anything homemade I've tried everything I can, as seems to be a massive bottle neck somewhere on the chippery which means that there is a delay of about one second to everything I'm playing
the potentiometer is on this commercial MIDI controller by novation a pathetic, if you try and use it for anything homemade I've tried everything I can, as seems to be a massive bottle neck somewhere on the chippery which means that there is a delay of about one second to everything I'm playing
VvvvvV said:
That doesnt sound like the keyboards fault. That sounds like a common factor called 'latency'.
Basically you can get around it by getting an soundcard that supports ASIO. Then you can bring your latency down to <10ms depending on the card.
The only consumer based soundcard i know of that has asio support is the creative live and audigy series. The next most basic option is probably the M-Audio audiophile soundcard.
Yo uneed to do some more research on soundcards and music production software by the soudns of it? Keep us posted though.
Ardo - no prob
The only keyboards im aware of that have piezos are the old analogue style ones that support analogue aftertouch. Not digital afterotouch trickery..
that's a good point But it was going straight through a 2496 audiophile card with 6ms latency...
the keyboard plays fine through its own electronics and I think all the potentiometers a polled about 50 times a second, and there's tons of multiplexing and scan matrix and processors that get overloaded hence they delay.
I managed to get a MIDI boutique readily extendable board that can handle 320 switches and 64 potentiometers so it should be pretty decent now I'm just waiting for some extra parts and finally I can do this thing.
the keyboard plays fine through its own electronics and I think all the potentiometers a polled about 50 times a second, and there's tons of multiplexing and scan matrix and processors that get overloaded hence they delay.
I managed to get a MIDI boutique readily extendable board that can handle 320 switches and 64 potentiometers so it should be pretty decent now I'm just waiting for some extra parts and finally I can do this thing.
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