Building a Fender 5E3 Deluxe from scratch.

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This thread is inspired by another thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90325&pagenumber=3

Okay....

Here's a great copy of the schematic, in PDF...
http://www.schematicheaven.com/fenderamps/deluxe_5e3_schem.pdf

I think this will be a slow build and therefore I figure I can afford to put quality parts in it....

My first question is which brand of transformer is the favorite of the diy-amp-building-pros?... I seem to remember hearing that Mercury Magnetics is pretty far up the chain.... Any thoughts on this?

Presupposing that I went with Mercury Magnetics, I'm highly confused on which Fender Deluxe power and outputs transformers to use... Look at this page, there are so many to choose from:
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/catalog/MM_fender1.htm

:dead:
 
OK,

Heres some info.

1st off, I have built (4) 5E3's this past week. There are a lot of options on building this particular amp and a lot depends on if your trying to build it as an exact clone, or as a quality rendition of an age old proven design.

I opted for building the rendition rather than wasteing time trying to build an exact clone which there are tons of kits for.
In my opinion, It sounds better than the original and does not break the bank.

2nd, Are you planning on building it as a tradition fender deluxe combo style cabinet or as a head unit or other type cabinet.


My first question is which brand of transformer is the favorite of the diy-amp-building-pros?... I seem to remember hearing that Mercury Magnetics is pretty far up the chain.. Any thoughts on this?

Mercury Magnetics is pretty far up the chain Especially in cost.

There are more cost effective choices. AES for example sells an excellent 25W output trans for the Fender Deluxe. for $27.00 Vs The MM for $90.00?? No sense paying for extra added hype expense. They make a good transformer, But it is NOT $60.00 Better. The power transformer can be a Hammond 272BX ($40.00)which matches the 5E3 Narrow panel circuit near perfectly, Combined with the AES output trans you'll easily get an excellent amp.

If you go with the rendition style amp in a traditional tweed combo cab, You can use the Hammond 13.5 X 5 X2 Chassis.
In my opinion, This group fits the 5E3 like a silk glove. No wasted space, No extra unneeded expenses.
I make my own eyelet boards, Turrets are nice, but once the amps built, you'll rarely if ever see them again, .03ea for eyelets, or .19ea for turrets?

Just takes a bit of patients, a bit of homework and a lot of research.

My first few builds where a nightmare, I had not tinkered with electronics for decades, And it seamed like nothing I built would work correctly ( Unless you needed a high end oscillator) haha

Now they look like this My common 5E3

As far as tone? I would put it up against a Vicky any day of the week!

Trout
 
peritus307 said:

Yeah... I can see your point on the price points... much more realistic...

Can you post links to the transformers you mentioned?

Thanks


The 272BX Hammond is on sale right now, In Fact, The Deluxe Transformer is also on sale.
http://www.tubesandmore.com/


TRANSFORMER, OUTPUT, 25 WATT, 8 OHM, REPLACEMENT FOR FENDER

P-TF41318

Replacement for Deluxe and Deluxe Reverb, 8 ohms. Equivalent to #125A1A & #041318
 
Trout said:
OK,

Heres some info.

Just takes a bit of patients, a bit of homework and a lot of research.

My first few builds where a nightmare, I had not tinkered with electronics for decades, And it seamed like nothing I built would work correctly ( Unless you needed a high end oscillator) haha

Now they look like this My common 5E3

As far as tone? I would put it up against a Vicky any day of the week!

Trout

Mr Trout:

Very nice build. I am curious though, where you got your nice powder coated chassis with the faceplate painted on. That chassis looks bigger than the 13.5 x 5.5 you mentioned in your post

I used a basic Hammond Chassis on my first 5E3 build 10 years ago, but there were not the resources back then that there are now. I had my faceplate engraved in a brass plate.
 
Peritus307

Trout has you on the right track. I have used the Hammond transformers several times and they are a great cost concious alternative to OEM repro trannies.

I get almost all of my small parts from AES (Tubesandmore) that Trout linked above, and they are good people to work with. And their prices are very competative. I bought from them on my first build 10 years ago and still use them.

I think you'll need a slightly longer chassis than the Hammond 13.5" box though. And if you are commited to a head, you can use a much bigger chassis all the way around. Hammond has some other choices that can make a first build much easier.

I have found that I can get excellent quality chassis from Komboking at: http://www.komboking.worldbreak.com/index.html

You can get custom faceplates at: http://amplates.com/ or from these folks: http://www.customampfaceplates.com/index.htm if you use a blank chassis you'll need something.

You need to commit to your chassis and faceplate choices in the beginning of the build.

When it comes to the circuit board, I prefer TURRETS to eyelets. I feel they are easier to work with and easier for repair, trouble shooting and modification. But that's only my opinion because I have just always used them.

Your board is the next thing you need to commit to early in the build. You can get the board supplies from Hoffman amps at: http://hoffmanamps.com/ They have the G10 board material cut to custom length and they also have the turrets and eyelets.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress and questions.
 
Casey4s said:


Mr Trout:

Very nice build. I am curious though, where you got your nice powder coated chassis with the faceplate painted on. That chassis looks bigger than the 13.5 x 5.5 you mentioned in your post

I used a basic Hammond Chassis on my first 5E3 build 10 years ago, but there were not the resources back then that there are now. I had my faceplate engraved in a brass plate.


Casey4s said:
Peritus307

Trout has you on the right track. I have used the Hammond transformers several times and they are a great cost concious alternative to OEM repro trannies.

I get almost all of my small parts from AES (Tubesandmore) that Trout linked above, and they are good people to work with. And their prices are very competative. I bought from them on my first build 10 years ago and still use them.

I think you'll need a slightly longer chassis than the Hammond 13.5" box though. And if you are commited to a head, you can use a much bigger chassis all the way around. Hammond has some other choices that can make a first build much easier.

I have found that I can get excellent quality chassis from Komboking at: http://www.komboking.worldbreak.com/index.html

You can get custom faceplates at: http://amplates.com/ or from these folks: http://www.customampfaceplates.com/index.htm if you use a blank chassis you'll need something.

You need to commit to your chassis and faceplate choices in the beginning of the build.

When it comes to the circuit board, I prefer TURRETS to eyelets. I feel they are easier to work with and easier for repair, trouble shooting and modification. But that's only my opinion because I have just always used them.

Your board is the next thing you need to commit to early in the build. You can get the board supplies from Hoffman amps at: http://hoffmanamps.com/ They have the G10 board material cut to custom length and they also have the turrets and eyelets.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress and questions.

Thats is indeed a Hammond 13.5 X 5 X 2 Chassis. They sell it in Grey, Black, and also in plain aluminum.

The Cab is 22" X 18.5" X 9.250"

I chose it basically because of the width more than the length. I did not want the tubes hanging to low in the cab.


Here is a closer picture, Its a nice fit, This was an earlier build, I have since refined the layout more.

Older 5E3 Build In Hammond Chassis


You can read about my faceplate vendor in this thread, This gal @ BNP laser Makes great Plexi style faceplates.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90099



I buy the G10 from McMaster carr, The eyelets from mouser(keystone) I laid out the board to accept CDE PS axial caps rather than those huge Sprague atoms.

http://www.turretboards.com/

Is another board vendor thats pretty good and offers both eyelets or turrets for this amp as well as DIY parts. I have my doubts about going the hammond chassis route with a clone board.

Its such a simple design that I feel eyelets are the most cost effective. Either or, even with turrets, A mistake on the under the board wiring is the only thing to worry about.
I find turrets to be a 2 sided coin, I really love them for some things, But I was able to tighten up the layout better with the eyelets in this particular amp.

Takes me about 7 hours to fully wire the unit, additionally it takes me 1 hour to populate the board, 2 hours to punch and drill the chassis. But then again, I have templates for everything, plus the advantage of having built a lot of these all the same.

Trout
 
Thanks Trout,

I didn't realize that hammond offered the powder coat version of that chassis. It is the same size I used on some 5F1 Champs I built a few years ago.

Since you use the Hammond 272 series transformers on the back of the chassis, do you use a support bracket of any kind like Fender did with the 5F6A? I use 272FX Hammonds on Black Face Fenders where they just hang down.

I have done business with a local engraver from the very beginning. First he did my brass plates, then the past few years I have been getting the reverse engraved faceplates like yours. I completely lay mine out at home and drill pilot holes where all the controls etc need to go, then take it to him with a 1:1 drawing with all the dimensions. When he sets it up he calls me and I watch as he laser cuts it. I do the white filler paint. After I drill the finish sized holes.

This link is to a newer faceplate.

Laser Faceplate (BF Princeton Reverb)

I just saved the BNP link in my vendor folder, I have seen that before but forgot to save the link.

I also get my G10 from McMaster-Carr in big sheets and cut to suit myself. But I thought in the case of a first time builder Hoffman is a good choice to buy a small build size piece, and since he has the eyelets and turrets it saves having too many vendors and the shipping costs.

I got the link to "TurretBoards.Com" a few weeks ago and just forgot to post the link for Pertius307. I haven't delt with them yet but might buy some supplies next time around just to try them out.

I have stopped running wire under the circuit board for several reasons. I run those wires elevated above the board and just make a neat wire bundle. Most of those are just DC power wires from the power supply.

I am also using shielded wire from my jacks to the grid stoppers in the first stage as well as the volume controls. I have also been putting the first stage grid stop metal film resistors directly on the tube socket and to the shielded wire. This eliminates them from being on the board and aids in noise reduction, and more under board wiring.

I still use "Orange Drop 716" caps, they have always performed well for me and I like the tone they produce. I have also considered the Mallory 150's for my next Tweed to see the difference. The Mallorys a said to have more of a tweed character.

Thanks for the info...
 
I still use "Orange Drop 716" caps, they have always performed well for me and I like the tone they produce. I have also considered the Mallory 150's for my next Tweed to see the difference. The Mallorys a said to have more of a tweed character.


Don't do it LOL

I tried running the Mallory's, And The CDE Films in a couple builds and they killed the Tweed Twang we all know and love. Nearly no chime on the bright side and on the normal input they were literally dull.

OK If you have to try them do it, But be ready to swap them back out :D



Those Mallory 150's, as well as the Sozo's are best left to those Marshall distortion boxes. They are very dark sounding, I had a few other guys blind test them side by side and it was 100% unanimous they are duller.

I have read several times the Sozo's need significant running before they sound right, And I admit, I did not give those ones a fair chance. 30 minutes and I pulled them. Maybe prematurely.

I have not had any issues with the 272BX hanging from the back, But, I do have the chassis bolted from the top, as well as the rear panel.
The 272BX being very short compared to most top chassis transformers, I just mount it across the chassis, 4 - 6/32 bolts & washers and its solid as a rock.

Hey, where is Peritus307
Did we bore him right out of this thread??? haha

Trout
 
First question... Since I want to be a head style amp, should I still be looking at the same chassis you guys suggested?

More questions to follow, got a lot of ground to cover.. lol

Thanks

Edit: I just caught this..must've overlooked it the first few reads...

"I think you'll need a slightly longer chassis than the Hammond 13.5" box though. And if you are commited to a head, you can use a much bigger chassis all the way around. Hammond has some other choices that can make a first build much easier."
 
"I think you'll need a slightly longer chassis than the Hammond 13.5" box though. And if you are commited to a head, you can use a much bigger chassis all the way around. Hammond has some other choices that can make a first build much easier."


More so on a head version you will need more width, You will want the tubes to mount to the top of the chassis rather than the edge like in my combo cab.

Hammond makes a chassis that will work ok for that also, Just keep in mind that layout is everything.

The 12 X 8 X 2 works well. If you use a hammond power transformer you will free up a little internal space because the area under the transformer is not used up by the transformer hanging below the surface.

There are a few other choices in the links above, Kombokings chassis are very nice, He has a few universils as well as making customs. I prefer Hammonds just due to cost, and you can buy them at alots any parts supplier.

http://www.komboking.worldbreak.com/index.html

trout
 
Have a hart help a newbie?

I would love to get started in the right direction building a nice amp. I have sold many tube amps pulled from stereo consoles to be modified, I would love to have the knowledge to do it myself as I play guitar and also find these tube amps.

Maybe one of you knows a good inexpensive kit that would be good for a newbie? I do not want to go for an expensive kit since you pobably come into problems at first.

Thanks for any help and info, links, ect.
Joe
 
Re: Have a hart help a newbie?

drjoeshmoe said:
I would love to get started in the right direction building a nice amp. I have sold many tube amps pulled from stereo consoles to be modified, I would love to have the knowledge to do it myself as I play guitar and also find these tube amps.

Maybe one of you knows a good inexpensive kit that would be good for a newbie? I do not want to go for an expensive kit since you pobably come into problems at first.

Thanks for any help and info, links, ect.
Joe


About the best price on a DIY kit still remains the P1 By Doberman.

http://dobermanamps.com/newshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

Good documentation, Good Forum at AX84.com with most of the guys that designed those amps as members helping with support.

Trout
 
Greetings ladies and gentlemen, I sold a beautiful vibralux reverb when I was going thru a rough patch health wise(and yes I do regret it) and am considering building a 5e3. Firstly a question to trout, where did you get you cabinet plans from and would you be willing to share them with me as I can't find anything on the web?Secondly aapart from the cabinet and the basic circuit I don't fell the need to be purist as I would like to add a trem circuit.By all acounts the early Tremalux trem circuit is much nicer than the later optio trems. Has anyone had experience with these things. I await patiently for replies
peace and goodwill fergs
 
fergs1 said:
Greetings ladies and gentlemen, I sold a beautiful vibralux reverb when I was going thru a rough patch health wise(and yes I do regret it) and am considering building a 5e3. Firstly a question to trout, where did you get you cabinet plans from and would you be willing to share them with me as I can't find anything on the web?Secondly aapart from the cabinet and the basic circuit I don't fell the need to be purist as I would like to add a trem circuit.By all acounts the early Tremalux trem circuit is much nicer than the later optio trems. Has anyone had experience with these things. I await patiently for replies
peace and goodwill fergs

Hi Fergs

If your looking to duplicate the Deluxe or any Fender for that matter, They have all the cab sizes at the Fender Field Guide

I opted to enlarge my 5E3 cab slightly to accommodate the Hammond chassis.
I also chose not to build it with the angled front.
One thing I have noticed after building several models of Fenders circuits, as far as the caps go,To my ears nothing comes remotely close to the original sound of the early models other than orange drop PS series caps. A lot of guys swear by the 716P or 715P series, But there is just something about the clarity and ringing chime with the PS series that really stands out.

PS Series

Nothing fancy in the specs, but it sure shows in the end product.

Trout
 
This thread is inspired by another thread:
Make: Bell P/A - Model: Carillon '35' - Page 3 - diyAudio

Okay....

Here's a great copy of the schematic, in PDF...
schematicheaven.com

I think this will be a slow build and therefore I figure I can afford to put quality parts in it....

My first question is which brand of transformer is the favorite of the diy-amp-building-pros?... I seem to remember hearing that Mercury Magnetics is pretty far up the chain.... Any thoughts on this?

Presupposing that I went with Mercury Magnetics, I'm highly confused on which Fender Deluxe power and outputs transformers to use... Look at this page, there are so many to choose from:
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/catalog/MM_fender1.htm

:dead:

Warning, when I click on the link to the schematic at schematicheaven I get all sorts of virus warning popups. Had to kill the session and reboot.
 
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