Slap style bass goes as high as you'll let it.
Plectrum style not too far behind.
Fingernail edge just as high but much lower treble levels.
Fingerstyle takes off most of the top end.
The instrument (electric bass) can produce up to 20KHz.
Played live or recorded its filtered / compressed / limited.
sreten.
Plectrum style not too far behind.
Fingernail edge just as high but much lower treble levels.
Fingerstyle takes off most of the top end.
The instrument (electric bass) can produce up to 20KHz.
Played live or recorded its filtered / compressed / limited.
sreten.I think it depends heavily on playing style and the actual instrument. As pointed out, the low end is well defined - around 30 Hz for a 5-string bass tuned to standard pitch, around 40 Hz for a 4-string bass tuned to standard pitch.
My cheapo Fender Squire bass guitar has passive pickups with lots of turns of fine wire, making for lots of series inductance and series resistance. Combine that with the capacitance of even a short length of guitar cable, not to mention the input capacitance of anything it is plugged into, and you have a permanent low-pass filter built into the system which makes it very unlikely that there is any significant output above 5kHz from this guitar. If you play it the way James Jamerson played on all those great Motown songs - the classic fat, round tone - I would be surprised if there was any significant output above 1 kHz.
If, on the other hand, you have a bass with active pickups which are designed with lower impedance and then buffered by the onboard electronics, and you combine that with a heavily percussive style of playing (lots of slaps and pops), you can expect more treble output. I am still somewhat skeptical that there is much output beyond 5 kHz, but then again I've been wrong before and will undoubtedly be wrong again. I will volunteer to eat my hat, though, if anyone shows me a stock bass guitar and playing style that generates significant (defined as, say, 10% or more of total RMS signal) output above 15 kHz!
Put it this way: if you play your bass through a speaker that does not include a tweeter, and you like the sound if it just fine, that means you're probably not hearing much above a kHz or two, and don't miss it. Those big bass-guitar sized loudspeaker drivers don't usually have much output beyond a kHz or two. In fact a healthy 8-inch woofer may not go much above a kHz, and a 12 or 15 inch driver will usually top out at an even lower frequency, though this does depend somewhat on things like cone material and moving mass. I remember measuring an 8" driver that had its first cone breakup mode at 1 kHz, followed by very rapid roll-off except for the odd spike here and there in the frequency range as other break-up modes peaked.
-Flieslikeabeagle
My cheapo Fender Squire bass guitar has passive pickups with lots of turns of fine wire, making for lots of series inductance and series resistance. Combine that with the capacitance of even a short length of guitar cable, not to mention the input capacitance of anything it is plugged into, and you have a permanent low-pass filter built into the system which makes it very unlikely that there is any significant output above 5kHz from this guitar. If you play it the way James Jamerson played on all those great Motown songs - the classic fat, round tone - I would be surprised if there was any significant output above 1 kHz.
If, on the other hand, you have a bass with active pickups which are designed with lower impedance and then buffered by the onboard electronics, and you combine that with a heavily percussive style of playing (lots of slaps and pops), you can expect more treble output. I am still somewhat skeptical that there is much output beyond 5 kHz, but then again I've been wrong before and will undoubtedly be wrong again. I will volunteer to eat my hat, though, if anyone shows me a stock bass guitar and playing style that generates significant (defined as, say, 10% or more of total RMS signal) output above 15 kHz!
Put it this way: if you play your bass through a speaker that does not include a tweeter, and you like the sound if it just fine, that means you're probably not hearing much above a kHz or two, and don't miss it. Those big bass-guitar sized loudspeaker drivers don't usually have much output beyond a kHz or two. In fact a healthy 8-inch woofer may not go much above a kHz, and a 12 or 15 inch driver will usually top out at an even lower frequency, though this does depend somewhat on things like cone material and moving mass. I remember measuring an 8" driver that had its first cone breakup mode at 1 kHz, followed by very rapid roll-off except for the odd spike here and there in the frequency range as other break-up modes peaked.
-Flieslikeabeagle
True and not true.
Most bass processing removes excessive top end.
But a bass heavy tonal balance doesn't mean no top end.
Playing live excessive top end is generally cut by the speakers.
As with all things a hifi speaker with good high midrange resolution
is needed for high quality reproduction of bass, it needs to be able to
let the subdued midrange clues for the edges of bass notes through.
With such a hifi speaker it is also obvious when bass is rolled off.
To go back to the original question - IMO the frequency range is
irrelevant - nearly every instrument needs clean accurate full
range reproduction to sound real.
And it becomes obvious what recording filtering has been applied.
sreten.
Most bass processing removes excessive top end.
But a bass heavy tonal balance doesn't mean no top end.
Playing live excessive top end is generally cut by the speakers.
As with all things a hifi speaker with good high midrange resolution
is needed for high quality reproduction of bass, it needs to be able to
let the subdued midrange clues for the edges of bass notes through.
With such a hifi speaker it is also obvious when bass is rolled off.
To go back to the original question - IMO the frequency range is
irrelevant - nearly every instrument needs clean accurate full
range reproduction to sound real.
And it becomes obvious what recording filtering has been applied.
sreten.Just wanted to add a thought. An artificial harmonic is when you lay a finger on a string at a particular position on the neck without pushing down into the fretboard. At the 22nd fret, on a 35 1/2 inch scale neck, the artificial harmonic rings very high, in the 5-10k range. The absolute bottom end is DropC tuning. Anything below that and it sounds like mud. Therfore I believe the actual "frequency range" is 25Hz-10kHz. The strings themselves are not able to efficiently vibrate any faster or slower. With that, most bassists, like myself only care to play from 35Hz(E-String DropD) through about 500-600Hz(about the 19th or 21st fret on the G-String). Hope this helps
DogWater said:
Well IMO fairly inaccurate.
Artificial harmonics are nowhere near the 5KHz to 10Khz range.
(Your definition also seems to describe normal harmonics)
5 string basses are typically tuned to Low B.(E,A,D,G)
The range of fundamental notes of a bass is irrelevant to the
frequency range of sounds it produces with different playing
styles.
But I agree with ~ 30Hz (low B) to ~ 10KHz.
sreten.Chiming in here as another bass player.
I have tried a lot of stuff with my cabs, eqs, crossovers and whatnot to get a decent sound. "This one time," I did the math to find the highest frettable note's frequency on my Gibson, and then cut anything above that freq out of the signal path. It sounded like mud. Several people here have already said it, but even though a bass guitar's main frequencies are down between 40Hz and 160Hz, if you cut ANY frequency out of the mix, you lose definition. The only time you won't pick up string harmonics that are +10Khz is if you play with flat wound strings like some jazz players. And even then I'd bet they're there, just not at a level you'll hear in the reproduction.
But... A lot of classic bass cabs didn't have speakers capable of replicating those high frequencies. Most modern cabs have piezo tweeters so you hear clearly the pick and slap harmonics that are above 5KHz.
My predisposition though is for simple, non-tweetered cabinets. My home made cabinet will be a 2x12 vented coaxial. My very first bass cab was a Fender 2x15 closed back.
It just depends on what sounds you want to hear coming out of the cabinet. I'm happy with lack of 5KHz+ (I'm sure my current cabs reproduce higher than 5KHz, but the speakers are only rated 50 - 3,500Hz so it probably isn't "clear" like a tweeter would make it).
Oops, tangentville.
I have tried a lot of stuff with my cabs, eqs, crossovers and whatnot to get a decent sound. "This one time," I did the math to find the highest frettable note's frequency on my Gibson, and then cut anything above that freq out of the signal path. It sounded like mud. Several people here have already said it, but even though a bass guitar's main frequencies are down between 40Hz and 160Hz, if you cut ANY frequency out of the mix, you lose definition. The only time you won't pick up string harmonics that are +10Khz is if you play with flat wound strings like some jazz players. And even then I'd bet they're there, just not at a level you'll hear in the reproduction.
But... A lot of classic bass cabs didn't have speakers capable of replicating those high frequencies. Most modern cabs have piezo tweeters so you hear clearly the pick and slap harmonics that are above 5KHz.
My predisposition though is for simple, non-tweetered cabinets. My home made cabinet will be a 2x12 vented coaxial. My very first bass cab was a Fender 2x15 closed back.
It just depends on what sounds you want to hear coming out of the cabinet. I'm happy with lack of 5KHz+ (I'm sure my current cabs reproduce higher than 5KHz, but the speakers are only rated 50 - 3,500Hz so it probably isn't "clear" like a tweeter would make it).
Oops, tangentville.
Hi everyone ,
I Builded a nice Cab few months ago for my Bass rig .
Mostly because I did not liked what I was trying at the music stores , and because not liking the sound of a tweeter (too harsh).
So I wanted a woofer to deliver all the spectrum of my bass ,a 4 strings normaly tuned (EADG) MusicMan.
Not willing to play with crossovers and to keep the things as simple as possible , I looked for the broader bandwith I could find .
And founded all those quality in this whoofer :
the Eminence B102...usable Bandwidth (FS to -3db) 40Hz-9Kz.
and it stays sweet sounding...finger playing or pop and slap playing.
I Builded a nice Cab few months ago for my Bass rig .
Mostly because I did not liked what I was trying at the music stores , and because not liking the sound of a tweeter (too harsh).
So I wanted a woofer to deliver all the spectrum of my bass ,a 4 strings normaly tuned (EADG) MusicMan.
Not willing to play with crossovers and to keep the things as simple as possible , I looked for the broader bandwith I could find .
And founded all those quality in this whoofer :
the Eminence B102...usable Bandwidth (FS to -3db) 40Hz-9Kz.
and it stays sweet sounding...finger playing or pop and slap playing.
The AVERAGE human ear perceives frequencies from 20 to 20,000hz.
Audiophiles hear even more.One right here.
To answer your question correctly it would depend on who you are,& how you hear.
Beyond that even though MOST people donÕt hear below 20hz that doesnÕt mean that frequencies below 20hz arenÕt perceived by even the MOST average person.TheyÕre simply not heard.
A 18hz BagEnd will LITTERLY make most people HURL!!!
IÕm not kidding if youÕre within 20Õ youÕll puke UNCONTROLLABLY.
Although you may not hear below 20 get close enough,& youÕll **** sure FEEL it!
YES FROM A BASS GUITAR
Audiophiles hear even more.One right here.
To answer your question correctly it would depend on who you are,& how you hear.
Beyond that even though MOST people donÕt hear below 20hz that doesnÕt mean that frequencies below 20hz arenÕt perceived by even the MOST average person.TheyÕre simply not heard.
A 18hz BagEnd will LITTERLY make most people HURL!!!
IÕm not kidding if youÕre within 20Õ youÕll puke UNCONTROLLABLY.
Although you may not hear below 20 get close enough,& youÕll **** sure FEEL it!
YES FROM A BASS GUITAR
Zeleuo, calm down!
Most people can't hear up to 20K, after about 18 or 19 years old, the human ear starts to lose a lot of top end, by the time you're 30 odd, 16-18K is the max.
This is actually used in a simple device to stop teenagers congregating outside areas where they have been troublesome. A speaker produces 20K tones, which most older people can't hear, yet youngsters can perceive, and find subliminally uncomfortable, so they move away from the area. A bit like those ultrasonic pest scarers!
Most people can't hear up to 20K, after about 18 or 19 years old, the human ear starts to lose a lot of top end, by the time you're 30 odd, 16-18K is the max.
This is actually used in a simple device to stop teenagers congregating outside areas where they have been troublesome. A speaker produces 20K tones, which most older people can't hear, yet youngsters can perceive, and find subliminally uncomfortable, so they move away from the area. A bit like those ultrasonic pest scarers!
pinkmouse said:Zeleuo, calm down!
Most people can't hear up to 20K, after about 18 or 19 years old, the human ear starts to lose a lot of top end, by the time you're 30 odd, 16-18K is the max.
irelevant! even old guys can recognize missing transient signals at 20kHz, although they can hardly hear 10kHz sine from signal generator! human ear is very tricky organ and it's very difficult to cheat...
infos you believe, are coming from digital dark age... that's why we have 192kHz dacs today
phase_accurate said:
Modern bass-guitars with roundwound strings definitely generate harmonics above 5 kHz. Only players with bad taste (like guitar players playing a bass every now and then ......) don't care about the reproduction of these.
Regards
Charles
As a guitarplayer with bad taste and playing a bass every now and then, I can confirm your findings
Bassguitars do generate harmonics and transients well above 5k. I tried this with a tweeter crossed 5-10khz(ish) , soundwise- snaps became more snappy, got better definition(also to the low notes), you also hear more string noise from changing position on the fretboard.
I also tried a crappy piezo tweet, for some straaange reason it sounded like crap.
Another bass player here! At the moment I am building a new bass-cab. It will use an 18" woofer, a 10" midwoofer and a 1" horn tweeter. I hope to get a frequency response from 40Hz (I play 4 string electric bass and acoustic upright bass) up to 20kHz. I want the speaker to produce an extremely neutral sound so that my double bass will sound like wood and strings, and not just low notes.
...and another bass player reporting on duty,Sir!Geenius said:Another bass player here! At the moment I am building a new bass-cab. It will use an 18" woofer, a 10" midwoofer and a 1" horn tweeter. I hope to get a frequency response from 40Hz (I play 4 string electric bass and acoustic upright bass) up to 20kHz. I want the speaker to produce an extremely neutral sound so that my double bass will sound like wood and strings, and not just low notes.
I don't want to rain on your parade,but your project is highly probable not to give you the desired results...here's why:
1.A three-way bass cab is a little too much either for bass guitar or double-bass.The existence of a 18'' woofer might ensure a psihical confort but IMHO it's way too big and slow...except if you want that "Acoustic horns" sound of the 70's.For almost every situation,a 15''+2x10'' or a good 2x12'' is OK.
2.I'd not expect "wood & strings" from a 3-way box because you'll need to use some passive filters for the mid and tweeter,wich means different phase responses between the three drivers...hence,more "mud".(...been there,done that....too many times).
3.Are sure you want a heavy,60+ kilos cabinet to haul around?Just think about your back....now maybe you can and are willing to perform such a sport,but look a little farther....when you'll be 50,you'll surely feel all the consequences,being good or bad.
If I were you,I'd go for a good pair of coaxial 12s (as someone already suggested here).In a well-built/proper cab,they perform wonderfully,especially with a double-bass.
...or,go buy a Roland Bass Cube 100 or one of those fancy AER amps!
HTH!
Regards,
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