Hi all!
I want to build an analog tape delay, and I have found a whole lot of great tips but I want to make the box as small as possible, in order for me to be able to move it around. The only way of making one I found was by taking apart two tape decks (or one with a dedicated write, and a dedicated read head) and "combining" them, but that would take up a whole lot of space. Isnt there an easier way? Maybe someone has a simplified schematic of the electronics build around the heads? Effectively all I need is being able to send a signal from line level into the write head, and amplify the signal from the read head back up to line level, and if that doesnt take too much space maybe 2 read heads.
Does anyone have an idea?
Thanks!
Chris!
I want to build an analog tape delay, and I have found a whole lot of great tips but I want to make the box as small as possible, in order for me to be able to move it around. The only way of making one I found was by taking apart two tape decks (or one with a dedicated write, and a dedicated read head) and "combining" them, but that would take up a whole lot of space. Isnt there an easier way? Maybe someone has a simplified schematic of the electronics build around the heads? Effectively all I need is being able to send a signal from line level into the write head, and amplify the signal from the read head back up to line level, and if that doesnt take too much space maybe 2 read heads.
Does anyone have an idea?
Thanks!
Chris!
If all you want is tape delay, then you need a three head deck. record, playback, erase. Really the erase and record can be in the same head. So your dry signal is fed to the record amp, and the playback output is fed back to your mixer. Pot up the playback and you get increased repeats. VAry tape speed for tempo. Standard in a radio or recording studio.
Less expensive decks use the record head as the playback head, so this won't work. You could mount an extra playback head on an existing deck and make a playback amp for it. Steal the playback circuit from any deck.
A low of less expensive decks also use the same amplifier for record and playback. For your use, you do need separate record and playback amp circuits.
Less expensive decks use the record head as the playback head, so this won't work. You could mount an extra playback head on an existing deck and make a playback amp for it. Steal the playback circuit from any deck.
A low of less expensive decks also use the same amplifier for record and playback. For your use, you do need separate record and playback amp circuits.
Yeah, I indeed forgot the erase head but that technically can be just a regular magnet if I remember correctly
Yeah I know this, but the problem lies in how to make this portable.
Thats my plan indeed, I can look for ages for a 3-head player but I am going to modify the housing anyway, so why not get 2 recorders, and use one record/play head just for recording, and the other for only playback, but if Im stealing the circuit it will be HUGE, keeping in mind I also want to add tone control, and an arduino for the tempo (so I can tap tempo), so I want to redo the circuitry, and only use the heads if that is possible.
Hi Chris,
For cheap and dirty, use two R-R machines. Attach them to a rail system when you're setting up and thread the tape off the left machine to the right machine. Record on the left, playback on the right. You could make the tape into a loop if you wanted. You would need a tensioned idler wheel to take up the slack if you want to move the two machines to adjust the time delay. Just using normal tape (on the reel) you wouldn't need to worry about that at all. You could just use two identical decks and a table to keep them lined up.
Before you complain about portability, these machines can be moved individually.
-Chris
No way! This will magnetize the heads in no time flat. It will then kill the highs right off the bat.
No, that isn't true either. If you do not use an erase head you will create a long period echo machine. You absolutely do require an erase head.
In recording studios they would run the tape outside the machine around spools to create the long time delays they needed. Those machines ran at 15 ips and 30 ips, so if you use a cassette deck your length will be less. But. If you move away from a standard speed your EQ will go "funny" - and not in a good way. You vary the delay by moving the playback head in relation to the record head. Obviously using open reel machines is easier.
For cheap and dirty, use two R-R machines. Attach them to a rail system when you're setting up and thread the tape off the left machine to the right machine. Record on the left, playback on the right. You could make the tape into a loop if you wanted. You would need a tensioned idler wheel to take up the slack if you want to move the two machines to adjust the time delay. Just using normal tape (on the reel) you wouldn't need to worry about that at all. You could just use two identical decks and a table to keep them lined up.
Before you complain about portability, these machines can be moved individually.
-Chris
You DO need a record head, otherwise whatever is already on the tape will not be removed when you lay down something new. We really do not want the previous song bopping along with the current tune. Tape decks erase a tape just before it hits the record head. That is why combined erase/record heads are common.
As to room, the mechanicals are what take up space, not an extra head and electronics. Are you designing a tape transport system from scratch? Or are you looking to adapt an existing tape deck.
Distance between R and P head plus tape speed sets your delay. You can either change tape speed, or change the space between heads. 15ips and 30ips may be typical in studio decks, but out in the real world of portable machines, 15ips is tops and not common. Usual consumer decks run at 7.5ips. A 2 second delay is LOOOOONG. 1 second is a lot. Look at a classic Echoplex. The head moves. So the longest stretch is about something like 6-8 inches, I forget. That was enough to get a long delay at max setting.
Echoplex had a moving head, as did others, but some had fixed heads but more than one. You could chose which of several heads picked up the play. Or select more than one for a more complex return. And some did change speed.
As to room, the mechanicals are what take up space, not an extra head and electronics. Are you designing a tape transport system from scratch? Or are you looking to adapt an existing tape deck.
Distance between R and P head plus tape speed sets your delay. You can either change tape speed, or change the space between heads. 15ips and 30ips may be typical in studio decks, but out in the real world of portable machines, 15ips is tops and not common. Usual consumer decks run at 7.5ips. A 2 second delay is LOOOOONG. 1 second is a lot. Look at a classic Echoplex. The head moves. So the longest stretch is about something like 6-8 inches, I forget. That was enough to get a long delay at max setting.
Echoplex had a moving head, as did others, but some had fixed heads but more than one. You could chose which of several heads picked up the play. Or select more than one for a more complex return. And some did change speed.
Hi Enzo,
The erase head will get rid of everything. Without a record head you wouldn't be able to lay anything down on tape.
Now, 7 1/2 ips is normally the home maximum speed and isn't that rare with 10 1/2" machines (Teac, Revox, etc). The cheap and nasty machines used 3 3/4 ips as a maximum speed. Getting close to where you might even see a permanent magnet used as an erase head! The little 3" reel machines sometimes did this.
Anyway, the information was intended to show the OP how this could be done in real life.
-Chris
Who said you didn't?
The erase head will get rid of everything. Without a record head you wouldn't be able to lay anything down on tape.
And who said that home machines were 30 ips? I used studio machines as an example where they did play with the tape path for delays, that's all.
Now, 7 1/2 ips is normally the home maximum speed and isn't that rare with 10 1/2" machines (Teac, Revox, etc). The cheap and nasty machines used 3 3/4 ips as a maximum speed. Getting close to where you might even see a permanent magnet used as an erase head! The little 3" reel machines sometimes did this.
Anyway, the information was intended to show the OP how this could be done in real life.
-Chris
I had no idea we were butting heads.
Apparently agreeing that he needs an erase head makes you upset with me.
No one said home decks ran at 30, I was just generally describing decks the guy would likely encounter and those he likely would not. He is basically trying to reinvent the Echoplex or equivalent. He is concerned about the physical size. His first post mentioned not wanting to use two decks for that reason.
My apology for any discomfort I may have caused you.
Apparently agreeing that he needs an erase head makes you upset with me.
No one said home decks ran at 30, I was just generally describing decks the guy would likely encounter and those he likely would not. He is basically trying to reinvent the Echoplex or equivalent. He is concerned about the physical size. His first post mentioned not wanting to use two decks for that reason.
My apology for any discomfort I may have caused you.
I've got one if you want to buy it, part of a Schober Recital Organ. It comes with several worn out tape loops in schober boxes, one of those "great" ideas from the sixties that wasn't very practical. PM me if you want to make it worth my while to box it up and haul it to the Fed Ex store. It's about 12 " x 8" x 8". It's monaural. No guarentee it works, but it's all there.
Personally I'm going to hook up a Digitech effects rack unit in the organ effects loop with about 100 different reverb ambients, or else use a PC and Audacity software.
My Hammond H100s have spring reverb, which I find interesting but not essential to my enjoyment.
The whole Schober project is rather dingbat, with undistinguished sound, but it comes with Pratt Reed keyboard with gold plated contacts, and as such will make a good candidate for conversion to midi and jorgan software on the PC.
Personally I'm going to hook up a Digitech effects rack unit in the organ effects loop with about 100 different reverb ambients, or else use a PC and Audacity software.
My Hammond H100s have spring reverb, which I find interesting but not essential to my enjoyment.
The whole Schober project is rather dingbat, with undistinguished sound, but it comes with Pratt Reed keyboard with gold plated contacts, and as such will make a good candidate for conversion to midi and jorgan software on the PC.
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Anatech's sign-off line "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" seems to apply to this entire enterprise...
I think it might very well be easier to DIY a digital delay with modifications to add hiss, a lowpass filter for that dull tape sound, add flutter via DSP, and generally make the delay sound as bad as ye olde tape delays used to. And once it was done, you wouldn't have the endless ongoing headaches of dealing with a temperamental tape loop running through old hardware that already has one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana-peel.
Or one could throw enough money to feed a third-world citizen for a year at a commercial offering: Amazon.com: T-Rex REPLICATOR Analog Tape Echo Delay/Chorus Pedal: Musical Instruments
-Gnobuddy
I think it might very well be easier to DIY a digital delay with modifications to add hiss, a lowpass filter for that dull tape sound, add flutter via DSP, and generally make the delay sound as bad as ye olde tape delays used to. And once it was done, you wouldn't have the endless ongoing headaches of dealing with a temperamental tape loop running through old hardware that already has one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana-peel.
Or one could throw enough money to feed a third-world citizen for a year at a commercial offering: Amazon.com: T-Rex REPLICATOR Analog Tape Echo Delay/Chorus Pedal: Musical Instruments
-Gnobuddy
tape head specifications
I am also Going to make one. the electronics seem pretty basic, the tape transport seems do-able (I have some machine skills, more than my guitar skills)
i can buy tape heads on EBAY for $6. I am guessing they are the record/play back type.there is no other information.
i am guessing that the whole deal will be pretty undemanding of bandwidth and distortion.
does anyone have knowledge or resources about tape heads? love to talk with someone who actually made one? not a re purposed tape deck but an actual build.
I have a digital and analog delay. i want to Make something
I am also Going to make one. the electronics seem pretty basic, the tape transport seems do-able (I have some machine skills, more than my guitar skills)
i can buy tape heads on EBAY for $6. I am guessing they are the record/play back type.there is no other information.
i am guessing that the whole deal will be pretty undemanding of bandwidth and distortion.
does anyone have knowledge or resources about tape heads? love to talk with someone who actually made one? not a re purposed tape deck but an actual build.
I have a digital and analog delay. i want to Make something
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